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Post by STROMI 121 on Dec 9, 2015 16:08:59 GMT -5
LESS WITH THE JAWS, AND MORE WITH THE PAWS.....
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Post by cheezwhiz31 on Dec 9, 2015 16:19:09 GMT -5
What's a piston squirter? Haha Ya! Also who is this Groop guy everyone is talking about???
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Post by jaygreen80 on Dec 9, 2015 17:51:26 GMT -5
Stumbled on this thread, been a while since some good old fashioned wecrash arguing over nonsense has gone on....brought me back to the old days for a minute, almost makes me misty eyed.
Seems simple to me. If you want to build your own shit, then go ahead and build it but if you are going to ask other people's opinions about how to build it then you should damn well be ready to listen to what they have to say. Especially when a few of the guys chiming in have more experience with derby engines than you will have in 10 lifetimes. I know guys that build their own and do very well, and I know guys like me that don't have the time, patience, or knowledge to build their own that would rather buy the products from someone with a proven track record of building winning stuff. Either is a reasonable option but if the engine builder with more wins than anybody on the planet takes time to give you advice, I'd damn well listen to what he has to say.
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ron17t
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Post by ron17t on Dec 9, 2015 21:36:11 GMT -5
Try not to run around in circles on here and contradict yourself. Let me highlight some things from this post on page 5. "He has all of the facts and I would love to learn and see the facts" "Give me the results" If you really want to learn, don't be concerned about me doing the work for you. You say you will conduct your own research and don't care about what I say? Then why are you on this thread? I'm not asking for anything if you tell me 6 in rods are not a good Idea the you must of had some kind of test with them to tell me there a bad idea and I will conduct my own research I have a derby engine at my house I'm tearing it apart to replicate the clearances cause iv ran it in three derby and all with out water for 20 min plus and never lost power so I'll be fine, it should be a good year next year. As far as the 6in rod question on a 383 I'll give you some advise from past experience. I've never had a 383 as a derby engine but I had quite a few of them when I raced circle track. The 383's I had were 5.7 rods, stroker crank, and 383 pistons.When I started out with them I had the same questions as you, and the engine builder that I used said they had better longevity with the 5.7 rod engines. They were built by JR Motorsports-they build circle track engines for different classes across the country, so I'm sure they have tested a few. I've ran them 6500 to 7000 rpm all night and they lasted quite a few races. I think the 6 inch rods have more flex and vibration. I don't think I would bother with a 383 for derby use, 350's have always worked for me, the extra expense of building a 383 just for some extra power and torque doesn't seem to have enough benefit for the money spent.
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19x
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Post by 19x on Dec 10, 2015 1:10:18 GMT -5
I'm not asking for anything if you tell me 6 in rods are not a good Idea the you must of had some kind of test with them to tell me there a bad idea and I will conduct my own research I have a derby engine at my house I'm tearing it apart to replicate the clearances cause iv ran it in three derby and all with out water for 20 min plus and never lost power so I'll be fine, it should be a good year next year. As far as the 6in rod question on a 383 I'll give you some advise from past experience. I've never had a 383 as a derby engine but I had quite a few of them when I raced circle track. The 383's I had were 5.7 rods, stroker crank, and 383 pistons.When I started out with them I had the same questions as you, and the engine builder that I used said they had better longevity with the 5.7 rod engines. They were built by JR Motorsports-they build circle track engines for different classes across the country, so I'm sure they have tested a few. I've ran them 6500 to 7000 rpm all night and they lasted quite a few races. I think the 6 inch rods have more flex and vibration. I don't think I would bother with a 383 for derby use, 350's have always worked for me, the extra expense of building a 383 just for some extra power and torque doesn't seem to have enough benefit for the money spent. Thanks that's what I was looking for and I already ordered a crank and rods for the 383 but I did stay with the 5.7 rods so glad I did thanks for the info I will keep it in mind and already have a set of forged pistons for 5.7 rods so that's why I stayed with the 5.7 rod, so thanks again for the info know I now.
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Post by saskbanger on Dec 10, 2015 18:46:00 GMT -5
NEVER SAID THAT YOU SHOULD BUY A DERBY ENGINE, JUST WHO I WOULD BUY ANOTHER ONE FROM IN A MINUTE.... COULD I BUILD A "DERBY ENGINE".SURE, I BET I COULD, AFTER YEARS OF TRIAL AND ERROR, WASTED MONEY AND TIME, LOST WINNINGS REVENUE...... BUT WHY? THE WORK HAS BEEN DONE AND THE PRODUCT UNEQUALLED..... I USED TO RUN OLDS 350`S DRYBLOCK, WOULD GET 26-28 MINUTES FROM THEM ALL THE TIME BEFORE BAD THINGS HAPPENED AND FINISHED OUT OF A HIGHER PAYING SPOT. THE REALITY IS, IF YOU FEEL QUALIFIED TO BUILD ONE, GO AHEAD... IF NOT, HIRE SOMEONE TO BUILD YOU ONE THAT HAS A PROVEN RECORD... I AM SICK AND TIRED OF CERTAIN ENGINE BUILDERS CRYING ON HERE THAT THEY WERE RUNNING GREAT UNTIL" SOME MYSTERIOUS CARB,IGNITION,FUEL PROBLEM CROPPED UP.... I LOOK AT IT THIS WAY, IF YOU WANT TO GET A LEG UP, PAY YOUR DUES AND PONY UP THYE MONEY TO BUY ONE, OR START BUYING AND BREAKING PARTS.... AND THINK ABOUT HOW MANY EXTRA HIGHER PLACING MONEY SPOTS YOU HAVE GIVEN UP... FOR ME THE ANSWER WAS SIMPLE... LESS WITH THE JAWS, AND MORE WITH THE PAWS..... . Are you saying you make money derbying? For me luckily it is not about the money because I can't see me ever breaking even. But you probably run higher level derbys than me. My wife doesn't see the point in racing and she doesn't really know how much money I spend. Lol. I know if I wanted to compete at a higher level I could not afford it even (especially) with the money saving of a ready built derby motor.
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Post by crusher71 on Dec 10, 2015 21:06:32 GMT -5
LAST 4 DERBIES I RAN THIS YEAR I MADE A GRAND FOR 3RD AT THE CHAMPIONSHIP. THE LOCAL FAIRS I RAN AT I PLACED 2 FIRSTS AND 3RD. MADE OVER 4 GRAND FOR THE SEASON, AND IT WAS WITH THE "THROWAWAY MALIBU MOTOR" I THOUGHT HAD A ROD KNOCK BUT WAS JUST A BROKEN CRANK BOLT CIRCLE ON THE FLEXPLATE. DID I MAKE MONEY DERBYING?? I WOULD SAY YES, AS THE BODY SHELLS AND BROKEN PARTS COST LESS THAN THAT...ON A SIDE NOTE, I HAD A HELL OF A GOOD TIME SHUTTING UP A COUPLE NON-BELIEVERS....DONE WITH THIS THREAD, RUN WHAT YOU WANT TO, OR CAN AFFORD TO. PERIOD..
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Post by saskbanger on Dec 10, 2015 22:35:25 GMT -5
Ok wasn't trying to be a d!ck.
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99x
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Post by 99x on Dec 15, 2015 10:05:13 GMT -5
So what was the verdict? Can't let this thread die! It was getting to good!
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Post by scottgropp on Dec 15, 2015 17:31:52 GMT -5
I think it was fine to die. Nobody listens anyway.
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99x
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Post by 99x on Dec 15, 2015 18:17:52 GMT -5
But.... but.. it was making the off season so enjoyable!
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19x
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Post by 19x on Dec 15, 2015 18:20:14 GMT -5
I think it was fine to die. Nobody listens anyway. to all the facts you gave right
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Post by dauber on Dec 15, 2015 19:16:59 GMT -5
I think it was fine to die. Nobody listens anyway. to all the facts you gave right Wow. After all that. You still don't get it! I'm guessing your from the new school that feels entitled, and expects everyone to just hand every thing to you.
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Post by themopar17 on Dec 15, 2015 20:01:14 GMT -5
I think it was fine to die. Nobody listens anyway. to all the facts you gave right Man figure out the facts for yourself, prove what works and what doesn't, why would you expect a professional derby engine builder to give you all of his secrets and tell you why somthing works or doesn't, those secrets are what keeps him in business. If everyone knew how to build a "Scott Gropp copy engine" no one would travel hundreds of miles to buy a engine from him when they can build the same thing in their garage for less.
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Post by saskbanger on Dec 15, 2015 20:21:15 GMT -5
Scottgropp is not going to give away any secrets. He has spent years and years developing the most trusted derby motor in the sport. That's cool. 19X wants to build his own motor and that's cool too. They butt heads. That's cool too. We are all derby guys, that's what we do. But I don't think having the most trusted derby motor is the end goal here. I can speak only for my self when I say that the building of the motor is the important thing. What skills I develop along the way. What I learn doing it. I look building a derby car as an exercise in personal growth that you don't get buying one. And you have to love that sound of a derby motor at full charge.
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