19x
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Post by 19x on Nov 22, 2015 23:19:48 GMT -5
What is everyone's opinion on installing piston squirters I building a 355 derby motor gonna be a 11:1-12:1 compression ratio gonna be running 110 Octane out of my aed 4412 and fully balancing rotating assembly and I will have forged flat top pistons and x rods with some work done to them and also deciding Weather to go full roller of flat tappet have roller rockers and also running heads with 2.05 intake and 1.60 exhaust just getting opinions on what else I should do also installing arp head studs.
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ron17t
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Post by ron17t on Nov 23, 2015 20:45:33 GMT -5
I'd definately go with the piston squirters.Roller cam is the way to go over solid lift. If you can get away with it use a 7 qt circle track pan with the doors removed and a big block oil pump. Unshroud the valves and open up the stem to guide clearance a bit,, make sure you get good valve springs, aluminum intake.
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Post by 383 Sonoma on Nov 23, 2015 20:53:24 GMT -5
sounds like a heII of a lot of overkill to me bud. doesn't take near that much to win... we're derbying not racing
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Post by scottgropp on Nov 23, 2015 20:59:17 GMT -5
A simple review of piston squirters would tell you there is no need for them in a derby engine. Better yet, why not explain how you think they help. Sometimes when you have to explain your position it helps you find the holes in it.
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19x
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Post by 19x on Nov 23, 2015 21:27:44 GMT -5
well this is a circle track motor I'm going through and doing some work to. I think it will help keep the motor cool with the squirters in there and also wont have to worrie about detonation issues when getting warmer, I also wont have to second guess about the wrist pin seizing. I also have an air gap intake, that's what's going on it. I will also have 7qt pan on it. I will also have have arp in the motor bottom end and everything and I want to build my own to show u don't have to buy a 5000 motor to have a decent motor iv spent maybe 1500 so far on what I have into it and I'm looking into a 4-7 swap lunati roller cam too.i will also be using a hi vol dirt track oil pump and using clevite h-series bearings in rod and mains and also the heads are setup for full roller double coil spring setup with 7/16 screw in studs and scorpion roller rockers and push rod guides.
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99x
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Post by 99x on Nov 23, 2015 21:44:43 GMT -5
i have a feeling this is about to get very interesting lol
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Post by 383 Sonoma on Nov 23, 2015 21:44:33 GMT -5
Squirters are shooting the same hot oil on the piston that the crank and rods are sloshing up there....
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19x
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Post by 19x on Nov 23, 2015 21:53:35 GMT -5
well if you have no oil going to the pin and lets say its like 300 degree motor your telling me no oil on the pin is better than having a safety feature like oil squirtes lubricating them instead of being completely dry and galling them and have a possibility of the pin seizing. then blowing the motor up the motor.
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Post by redneckracing12 on Nov 23, 2015 22:00:58 GMT -5
there is oil getting to the pin. also the 4/7 swap is worthless, much much better cams on the market than that. its kind of like the infamous "RV" cam.
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99x
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Post by 99x on Nov 23, 2015 22:08:35 GMT -5
I like my 268h cam
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19x
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Post by 19x on Nov 23, 2015 22:11:44 GMT -5
okay if it does then its oil coming from the crank witch is barley any lubrication at all in less you have pistons with the oilers in them and iv talk to a lot of different engine builders and the all say it runs and idles so much smoother and better throttle response and isn't lubrication key in a derby motor like I'm building the bottom end with little extra clearance of .001 for when it gets a little warm.
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19x
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Post by 19x on Nov 23, 2015 22:13:40 GMT -5
it does sound nice after I got done with it. I was surprised by the throttle response it had after I got the new valve springs and stuff done to it.
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Post by redneckracing12 on Nov 23, 2015 22:24:15 GMT -5
So piston squirters makes a engine idle better and give it better throttle response........ Honestly its your engine you can do what you want but theres better more beneficial things to spend your money on than squirters. Your compression it too high, intake valves are too big for the motor your building, 4/7 cam is not a ideal derby cam what so ever. If you really want to build a good derby motor do some research on fuel metering and ignition timing curves. those two things alone will make a huge huge difference. Internal work will be very beneficial as well but only if you know how its going to effect the engine and what tolerances to change
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Post by scottgropp on Nov 23, 2015 22:50:03 GMT -5
Don't tell me what others have told you. Think for yourself and tell me how it works. What size squirter do you need with what weight oil at what oil temp and what rpm to hit the bottom of the piston crown? Or is that even where you want the oil shot? Where on the stroke cycle are you hitting it? If oil temp changes, then what? If not hitting the right place, what is it really doing? If cylinder distortion occurs at higher temps can the rings wipe the cylinders with the excess oil not hitting the right places? Discuss oil temp with and without squirters. Give me details. NASCAR engines run specific oil temps and limited rpm ranges with tight clearances. Drag engines and tractor pullers run for very short times. We do niether. If you need to save your pistons with an oil squirter maybe you should figure out what the piston needs to live without it.
Do some real world testing and tell me specific numbers in a winning derby engine at full stress.
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19x
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Post by 19x on Nov 23, 2015 23:05:03 GMT -5
So piston squirters makes a engine idle better and give it better throttle response........ Honestly its your engine you can do what you want but theres better more beneficial things to spend your money on than squirters. Your compression it too high, intake valves are too big for the motor your building, 4/7 cam is not a ideal derby cam what so ever. If you really want to build a good derby motor do some research on fuel metering and ignition timing curves. those two things alone will make a huge huge difference. Internal work will be very beneficial as well but only if you know how its going to effect the engine and what tolerances to change no what I was saying is the 4/7 swap does that not piston squirters. I was told by a few engine builders the 4/7 cam add better throttle response and smoother idle and no the only thing I think squirters will do is keep piston temps down and how is that Baldwin runs 11:1 in on of the build sheets he showed me and I will be running a D.U.I distributor with his wires.
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