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Post by cowdoc on Nov 10, 2012 21:20:56 GMT -5
Not tearing off frame yet. And this statement about the body coming off confuses me. Everybody tells me to run the car low so I'm not hitting with the frame but everybody's concerned I'll tear the body off the frame. Huh? I've run mopar wagons, 60's fords and malibu wagons and all the tips I got on them made sense and they held up great but I'm getting lots of conflicting advice on this roundy and so far it's the most disappointing car I've ever ran but I think that's because I can't figure out what the goal is with the back. I've been derbying for many years but never ran one of these because I can never understand what is the best way to build one. Buddies who run'em are telling me the key is to keep the roof chained to the 2nd to last body mount, one friend says the wire in the window is a miracle worker and others are telling me to release the tiedowns and let the roof do whatever it wants. I've been told I want the box and bumper to bend down under the frame too. I actually don't understand what I'm trying to do in the advice above either-What am I trying to accomplish? I appreciate the help but not sure what's supposed to happen. I'm thinking I'll use the nose next time and only use the back at the end.
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Post by pasterofmuppets on Nov 10, 2012 21:59:44 GMT -5
If you ask ten people you are going to get 10 different answers. About 6 of them have seen a guy run a roundback before, about 2 of them have heard of roundbacks and seen pictures on here, 1 guy has read all the tips threads from every derby site but has never ran a car before, and the last guy knows how to build them but refuses to give advice or gives just enough for you to figure it out yourself.
I ALWAYS when allowed by the rules, tie the body (and roof) to the frame as tightly as I can. Usually all-thread through the back mounts up through the roof and #9 in each window as well as from one fender to the other. The goal is not to have the body rip off the frame, despite what they say, You want the wagon to sit low and to hit with the body to keep the frame straighter longer and prevent it from bellying hard. The way to do this is by getting it low and using the body. If the body tears away from the frame, it's pointless and you've just fried the back end anyways. You are overthinking it.
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Post by bluecrew72 on Nov 10, 2012 22:01:45 GMT -5
Here's the thing with roundys, they can be built to and will react two different ways.
1. Keep the body on the frame, this will result in a very hard rear end BUT it will belly and when they start to belly at the third mount from the rear it will go fast, in this case it's really nice when the main leafs break just before bellying to keep it from belly ing and instead the humps kink and it lacks in.... Only good if your running a slider though
2. Build to let the body release from the frame, this will result in a softer rear as the body will shave off leaving a frame sticking put the back and they go and go keep moving but do little damage as cars you hit will go over the frame and by the time they get to the packed in body the hit force is diminished so you keep trucking with a frame hanging out the back
The key is to build somewhere between these two areas ie the second from rear body comments
From the look of your pics, on the passenger side it appears that the rear body mount IS starting to tear and release which is FINE it's what you want it to do, now to just get the driver side to do the same is the key AND to have it all pack inside the car
Per my rules we haven't been able to build roundness with wire in the rears but I have seen enough ran without and with at other shows to tell ya it can add some advantages, it keeps the roof as a structural member instead of blowing upapward, would I add mush wire behind the rear mount probably not as that is where I would want to stop shearing from the frame
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Post by smashincwa on Nov 10, 2012 23:16:12 GMT -5
I'm still surprised someone hasn't canoed the roof of a roundy. Come-along the rear pillars and door pillars together and tent the roof. scott
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Post by 02robert on Nov 10, 2012 23:21:33 GMT -5
What's tuffer? 6 or 9 passenger?
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Post by pasterofmuppets on Nov 13, 2012 5:15:04 GMT -5
What's tuffer? 6 or 9 passenger? I'm going to go out on a limb here and say the eight passenger is the toughest.
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Post by smashincwa on Nov 13, 2012 20:23:05 GMT -5
The 6 will have more brackets over the rearend hump. BTW, there was only 8 seat belts, therefore only 8 passenger not 9.
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Post by pasterofmuppets on Nov 13, 2012 20:48:43 GMT -5
The 6 will have more brackets over the rearend hump. BTW, there was only 8 seat belts, therefore only 8 passenger not 9. You spoiled the fun. lol
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Post by furyous44 on Nov 19, 2012 8:34:31 GMT -5
When chaining the humps to the rear end, do you run the chain around the highest point of the hump, or ?
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Post by pasterofmuppets on Nov 19, 2012 13:00:56 GMT -5
That's what I do, from the highest point, all-thread on both loops if allowed.
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Post by pasterofmuppets on Nov 19, 2012 13:19:51 GMT -5
I am building a 71 Buick Wagon this year, definitely not my first wagon, but it's my first Buick in the 71 style. I ran a 71 Pontiac about ten years ago with Chevy Horns and a 74 Impala front bumper and it snooted almost instantaneously in front of the a-arms after about three solid hits. My building has come a long way since then and I know how to prevent that now, but I'm thinking about trying something different with this wagon.
Options I have are hardnosing, or using chevy horns (74 Impala), or making my own shocks/brackets. Bumpers at my disposal, 75 Impala (fresh, loaded between shock towers), 74 Impala style DEC bumper used once still straight, Homemade Pointy (exact copy of a mopar pointy skinned and loaded), and a 76 Monte bumper (loaded between the shock towers), or a plain jane 74 Impala bumper (stock minus seam welded, ran twice still straight).
The reason I ask is I'm torn between what I can do. Rules for the show I am going to run it at are similar to Derby Icons rules as far as bumpers go, welds allowed 4 inches past bumper bracket. Frame seams allowed to be welded a-arms forward (single pass), etc. You can make homemade bumpers/brackets and load the bumper between shock towers but it has to look stock in appearance with a chrome skin. Only real rule is no adding metal to the frame. The wagon is clean, but not mayhem clean, so I'm going to have a little fun with it and take it to a smaller event with lower competition and less payout. Any suggestions on which way I should go with the front bumper situation, personal experience with 71 BOP's?
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Post by Dan-Ervine-383 on Nov 19, 2012 19:05:53 GMT -5
This is my first Roundy also. My hometown show let's a lot of stuff fly. It will have a nice flat stack of leafs shoved up inside the frame and have kickers to the front side of the humps so . . . In my case would I want to sit the back high and hit with the frame?
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Post by Dan-Ervine-383 on Nov 19, 2012 19:21:13 GMT -5
Body mounts haven't been changed yet but they will be. Previous owner left rear decking in and welded it down so I'll have to cut holes for the body mount bolts. Thought about running all thread thru the frame, decking, and roof. This a bad idea?
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Post by pasterofmuppets on Nov 19, 2012 22:29:05 GMT -5
Body mounts haven't been changed yet but they will be. Previous owner left rear decking in and welded it down so I'll have to cut holes for the body mount bolts. Thought about running all thread thru the frame, decking, and roof. This a bad idea? For your build rules I'd leave the back end up and hit more with the frame (obviously there will still be quite a bit of body give until it reaches the frame). When allowed I always run 1 inch all-thread through the back four mounts up through the roof to tie everything together. Makes a huge difference, even if you are just limited to basically doing it with #9 wire IMO. Even with kickers you are going to run into the bellying problem because the force of all those rear end shots has to go somewhere, and with the kickers preventing it from being the humps, it'll more than likely bend at the firewall. Something to think about addressing.
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Post by bluecrew72 on Nov 19, 2012 23:05:43 GMT -5
^^^I think he meant kickers to the front side of the rear humps
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