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Post by 717wreckingball on Dec 10, 2012 14:21:32 GMT -5
has anyone had any luck with the pertronix points eleminator, or any performace gains. I haven't didn't notice this being mentions so figured I would ask before someone else did. maybe we should start a thread over mopar most repeatedliy asked questions.
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dm440c
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Post by dm440c on Dec 11, 2012 11:22:06 GMT -5
this topic is covered to some degree in the engines thread, so probably don't need to create a new sticky but....
Yes I've also experimented with Pertronix and have nothing positive to say. I'm not thrilled with the fixed settings on these, I feel I can get better dwell from a well adjusted set of points or from any of the various other electronic options. On two occasions I have helped someone diagnose a driveability problem on a Pertronix system and found the problem was caused by the module interfering with the mechanical advance plate. Not impressed in the slightest with the design.
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Post by hurricane98 on Dec 11, 2012 20:48:56 GMT -5
glad to see this thread,as Ive been having the same dilemma. Being old school,as I am,have always run Mopar,and always ran points.But friends have been trying to persuade me as of late. The HEI look like a pain in the a** and if it serve no true advantage,i see no point other than to throw more money into something Ive already spent way too much on..lol
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Post by Johnny L on Dec 11, 2012 20:57:03 GMT -5
When it comes down to it, it's all a matter of what works for you. I personally like the skip white "hei" dist because it's never given me a problem. I've had nothing but bad luck with points and the buick hei with the adapter bushing.
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Post by hurricane98 on Dec 11, 2012 21:34:06 GMT -5
the only problem Ive ever really had with a points dist. seems to be with once the front bumper goes over the roof..lol,but Im sure the only way to correct that issue is with a coil to plug ignition,and Im way to far in to make those big advances.
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dm440c
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Post by dm440c on Dec 12, 2012 12:28:42 GMT -5
glad to see this thread,as Ive been having the same dilemma. Being old school,as I am,have always run Mopar,and always ran points.But friends have been trying to persuade me as of late. The HEI look like a pain in the a** and if it serve no true advantage,i see no point other than to throw more money into something Ive already spent way too much on..lol Well it looks like you're picking up on the things I'm saying but keep in mind I'm just one guy and it's just my opinion based on my experiences. I've talked to a lot of guys who are fully convinced after trying an HEI setup that the engine ran better and that's their experience. At the end of the day it is all about what works for you. If you have the drive to experiment, don't let me talk you out of it. BUT if you don't care about it that much and are happy with what has been working for you, consider my opinion as a little reinforcement that you're probably not missing out on anything special. I think a part of the reason I am always so vocal when this topic comes up is that I was originally prompted to start experimenting with HEI systems when I kept reading on here how freakin great they were. "really wakes the engine up" "more reliable" and other statements were what I was always reading. I jumped in all excited to discover this great upgrade for my engines and with each new version to try I eventually realized no appreciable gain. I went through the same disappointing experience with the GM (Rochester) carburetors... actually, that's not quite true, with HEI systems I experienced no gain but with Rochester carbs I experienced all kinds of pain and heartache. Anyway, after a lot of head scratching I can only conclude that what is happening is a combination of placebo effect and buyer's remorse; that the gains people seem to experience might not actually be real but they are convinced that they are. I don't really know. I very much want to organize that dyno experiment someday to put some numbers on the discussion, I guess until then we'll all just have to debate what we "feel".
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Post by shadetreederby on Dec 12, 2012 15:38:10 GMT -5
HEI = electrical product, not as reliable, minimal gains i feel, will crap out on you whan u need it most. Seen it happen too often
Points = mechanical, much more reliable, can but rarely puke out on you.
I prefer points, derbies are about last car running, not most horsepower, response, etc. Just my two cents
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Post by martin113 on Dec 12, 2012 21:12:14 GMT -5
I run D.U.I setup kind of pricey but, I have no problems with it and its built for my motor.
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Post by redthunder on Dec 16, 2012 18:32:33 GMT -5
The only reason we tried the Buick HEI is because we had three distribtors already. We would have to buy any thing else.
Works well enough for us and is less hassle than points. Not perfect by no means but we like it.
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Post by shadetreederby on Dec 16, 2012 20:15:12 GMT -5
i just don't see how something as simple as points could be a hassle. WHere does the hassle come into them. ;D
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Post by STROMI 121 on Dec 16, 2012 20:55:44 GMT -5
i just don't see how something as simple as points could be a hassle. WHere does the hassle come into them. ;D I thought it was the ballast resistors in combination with the points setup that was the "hassle" part? I was told this weekend that this problem could be fixed by buying a coil that has the ballast resistor built in?
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dm440c
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Post by dm440c on Dec 17, 2012 13:58:18 GMT -5
oh boy you went and done it now.... you're dragging me deeper into the issue ;D seems like about once a year the issues of resistor vs. no resistor and coils with internal resistors come up, guess it is that time of year OK, couple of things to be aware of there. #1 any ignition system is designed to operate with a specified amount of current in the primary and secondary circuits. This is true of the points systems from all manufacturers, so all have a resistor in the circuit with a specified value such that it is correct for a 12V system. If you remove the resistor from the circuit, you are asking the remaining components of the system to cope with more electrical power than they were designed for. V=IR, plain and simple, no getting around it. Will something fail if you subtract the resistor from the circuit? Maybe. Maybe not. But either way it isn't how it was designed. Here's an analogy, have you ever hooked two batteries in series and used it to turn a 12V starter motor? It spins like crazy on 24v, doesn't it? So, this should be great for a derby engine that is hot, right? Will it fail on 24v? Maybe. Maybe not. But it sure wasn't designed to handle 24v. #2 the age old question of coil with internal resistor vs. separate ceramic resistor. Well, GM being GM they designed their system to be cheaper for manufacturing and assembly so they integrated the resistor with the coil. Chrysler being Chrysler designed their system to be more robust so they separated the two components. I often find that people get confused when discussing the terms "easier" and "better" and this is one of those cases. I'll sum it up like this: Have you ever felt how hot a Chrysler ceramic ballast resistor gets? That's because any time you pass a current through any resistor you will create heat. The sixty four thousand dollar question is, do you want that heat happening inside your coil or being dissipated harmlessly by a ceramic block bolted to the firewall? So yeah, the GM style is "easier" to put together in that you have fewer components to mount and fewer electrical connections to make. That doesn't make it "better". I'll never cease to be amazed by the mentality that will take months to construct a car with every tiny little insignificant build trick thrown in but they can't handle the thought of making 4 wire crimp connections instead of 2. It's just too taxing to have to deal with one more length of wire.... too funny ;D
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Post by STROMI 121 on Dec 17, 2012 15:42:39 GMT -5
I think it has more to do with the fear of the unknown and building inside your comfort zone. It does not make them stupid if they have no knowledge of something they have no previous experience with.
In my situation I was replacing a wore out lean burn ignition system that had an ignition box or PCM or something. I could have bought a points distributor and a ballast resistor then asked how to use it on here, or buy a $50 Hei and be done. I was going for a cheap reliable solution. I want one that stays running, I don't care about barely measurable horsepower gains.
I have seen plenty of HEIs and points/ballast systems fail during a derby.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Dec 17, 2012 16:08:14 GMT -5
plus when you junk the front of the crappy chrysler product, someone is bound to have an hei cap to let you get it on the trailer quicker!
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Post by crownbros on Dec 17, 2012 16:09:35 GMT -5
You know it's funny: I got a brand new Skip White hei set up as shown on the first page from my brother for Christmas last year. I went out and bought big fat plug wires, an MSD high-vibration coil, all this expensive crap that I probably didn't need. Dicked around with that distributor off and on for over a month and that thing would never get a spark. There must have been 4 or 5 different guys that stopped over and looked at it. Two days before Troy, I threw that entire set-up in the corner of the shop and dug one of my old points distributors back out. Dropped it in and I was doing donuts out behind the shop ten minutes later. Now maybe I just got a bad one right from the start, but it left me with the same bad taste that I had when I was trying to run stock mopar electronics back in the early 90's... Two entirely different systems but the exact same headache. Good luck guys!
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