hemi
Heat Winner
Posts: 300 
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Post by hemi on Aug 11, 2021 18:43:09 GMT -5
Ok looking at doing one last hoorah demolition derby in the future maybe.
Anyways do drivers prefer a bigger payout with higher entry fees or lower payout with lower entry fees ?
Do you prefer one shot deals or heats,then feature ?
Big trophies or big checks ?
pay top 3 only or spread it out to top 5 or top 10 ?
Do you think pit passes should be more than $20 to help increase drivers payouts ?
What do you think general admission should be ? currently we only charge $10 for adults,should we increase that to increase payouts.
Just a few questions I would like to know your answer on for future show.
Thanks,Jeremy
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improse
Feature Winner
Posts: 1,203
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Post by improse on Aug 11, 2021 23:12:44 GMT -5
Guess I'll be first ahole to post.lol
Prize money to me is not near as important then a TRUE and HONESTY inspection crew and treat all DRIVERS the same . You make a set of rules ENFORCE the dam rules regardless whom the driver/family may be. !!! Friends can not inspection Friends cars !!!
Good example: close friend just ran A BIG show in Ohio and was plain junked in the heat cause rules(bone stock) were not ENFORCED !!! Inspection allowed a loaded car to run cause it was a family members car.
This promoter we will never run for again. $hit like this is killing the sport.
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Post by backwoodsboys707 on Aug 12, 2021 7:18:45 GMT -5
Guess I'll be first ahole to post.lol Prize money to me is not near as important then a TRUE and HONESTY inspection crew and treat all DRIVERS the same . You make a set of rules ENFORCE the dam rules regardless whom the driver/family may be. !!! Friends can not inspection Friends cars !!! Good example: close friend just ran A BIG show in Ohio and was plain junked in the heat cause rules(bone stock) were not ENFORCED !!! Inspection allowed a loaded car to run cause it was a family members car. This promoter we will never run for again. $hit like this is killing the sport. I agree 100% with this. More or less same thing happened this past weekend at our hometown show and a month ago at another show. Promoter has started letting his buddies get away with alot of stuff and one show they didn't even inspect the car till he was on the way to the track! So my biggest thing is you make a set of rules you stick to them 100% no matter who it is and if they can't build to your rules and get mad that you tell them to cut or they can't run then maybe they should learn to read jmo. Then as far as entrance fee around here its $40 at just about every show and most pay top 5 some top 3 our hometown show pays top 12 but its usually a run heats, consi,then feature kinda show so if you went about it that way imo whoever makes the feature just pay the entry fee back then maybe top 5 or 3 get the bigger payouts? |
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Post by cheezwhiz31 on Aug 12, 2021 13:06:55 GMT -5
Awesome show?? Please explain what an awesome show is?
Examples below
Ton of drivers?
Hard Hitting fast paced?
Mad dog recognition
BIG MONEY?? 5k 10k to win? Paying down 10,9,8,7,6,5 ?
if you take these examples and probably your experience in the shows you've seen. It is damn near impossible to get one without another negative attribute. EXAMPLE---
Big Money=Bagging "even if said promotor says absolutely no bagging it happens and gets missed"
Heats and Feature=bagging "save the car mentality"
Big money Big show--- "Scares away a lot of the people that don't think they are able to run big shows and don't have a group or know people running so called big show"
OLD IRON or 80 Newer only= "couple old iron guys mad cause not allowed, Vic guys don't want old iron allowed, some don't care at all and probably the only group that will show up with car...
I think area time of year is huge part of it... Good luck sounds like a good idea...
Ever consider a battle of the states? Was always an idea i had. Say WI started it. "you" Start a private group for each state and have them talk amongst each other and come up with 20 of the so called best builders and drivers in the state and get them entered into it. Say 10 old iron and 10 New iron. Be it they have to trade amongst each other if one doesn't wanna run a new style but has no old iron or whatever they come up with but must be 10/10. Say you do 4 states WI MN IL IA.... 80 cars. draw heats 10 cars per heat put each state in a bucket and pull one from each and go back through and pull another from each. 10 cars 2 per state taking top 2... 16 car feature possible almost all one state could make it or not. Say 1st state to lose all their drivers is out of the draw for the next time the show happens. Winning state show gets to stay there. 10g, 5g, 3g, 1g to win. 500 entry fee winning state all drivers get their entry fee back. 80x500=40,000 19g in payout. So now at 21,000 20 winning state get money back 10,000g for them.... Now you have 11,000 to figure out where to spend it. B-main,Consi, Hard driver. top finisher from each state. Heat win money. Who knows.... Maybe the state pride and the honor of being picked for this show would make people wanna run it... Then Last place state is out and can pick a new state to represent themselves next year.... Just a dream i had....
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Post by backwoodsboys707 on Aug 12, 2021 14:01:30 GMT -5
Awesome show?? Please explain what an awesome show is? Examples below Ton of drivers? Hard Hitting fast paced? Mad dog recognition BIG MONEY?? 5k 10k to win? Paying down 10,9,8,7,6,5 ? if you take these examples and probably your experience in the shows you've seen. It is damn near impossible to get one without another negative attribute. EXAMPLE--- Big Money=Bagging "even if said promotor says absolutely no bagging it happens and gets missed" Heats and Feature=bagging "save the car mentality" Big money Big show--- "Scares away a lot of the people that don't think they are able to run big shows and don't have a group or know people running so called big show" OLD IRON or 80 Newer only= "couple old iron guys mad cause not allowed, Vic guys don't want old iron allowed, some don't care at all and probably the only group that will show up with car... I think area time of year is huge part of it... Good luck sounds like a good idea... Ever consider a battle of the states? Was always an idea i had. Say WI started it. "you" Start a private group for each state and have them talk amongst each other and come up with 20 of the so called best builders and drivers in the state and get them entered into it. Say 10 old iron and 10 New iron. Be it they have to trade amongst each other if one doesn't wanna run a new style but has no old iron or whatever they come up with but must be 10/10. Say you do 4 states WI MN IL IA.... 80 cars. draw heats 10 cars per heat put each state in a bucket and pull one from each and go back through and pull another from each. 10 cars 2 per state taking top 2... 16 car feature possible almost all one state could make it or not. Say 1st state to lose all their drivers is out of the draw for the next time the show happens. Winning state show gets to stay there. 10g, 5g, 3g, 1g to win. 500 entry fee winning state all drivers get their entry fee back. 80x500=40,000 19g in payout. So now at 21,000 20 winning state get money back 10,000g for them.... Now you have 11,000 to figure out where to spend it. B-main,Consi, Hard driver. top finisher from each state. Heat win money. Who knows.... Maybe the state pride and the honor of being picked for this show would make people wanna run it... Then Last place state is out and can pick a new state to represent themselves next year.... Just a dream i had.... I've always wanted to see something like this happen and I've thought it'd be interesting to see builders from other states have to build to other states rules bc between classes rules do change drastically between states at times so would really show who had the best builders. Maybe make it a series over a month and have a few different shows like one weekend its these 4 states then next show its 4 other states then 4 other states and so forth then the final show would be your top 5 from each previous show and on the final weekend itd be 20 of the best builders from the states who ran then maybe have filler classes run the same day with drivers from the states who competed? And say your state didn't make it to the final day then you can't run next year and it allows a different state to come in? |
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Post by Forney00c on Aug 12, 2021 17:05:38 GMT -5
I conpletely agree with having officials who will go by the rules and tech everyone's car the same, regardless of who they are. In past years, I've had a tech crew pick apart an underbuilt car while letting others with much more done to them go right on through the tech line with little more than checking that there was an engine, 4 wheels and a seatbelt. Bagging and team driving for solo shows is always difficult as said before, not all of it is caught and addressed.
Just other smaller officiating details should be kept consistent as well. For example, went to 2 different shows with the same promoter. One show had a decent car count, and every time someone got hung up on the berm or another car, whether it was their fault or not, the heat was stopped and skidloaders came out to free the car. Second show had a low count (5 or 6 per class, not heat, but entire class). 2 cars in a 5 car one and done class got hung up, bumper to bumper, but still running and moving. They got their sticks pulled for not being able to make an aggressive hit. The 5 car class was then down to 3 and was over in a matter of minutes.
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Post by amkear613 on Aug 14, 2021 15:50:13 GMT -5
Awesome show?? Please explain what an awesome show is? Examples below Ton of drivers? Hard Hitting fast paced? Mad dog recognition BIG MONEY?? 5k 10k to win? Paying down 10,9,8,7,6,5 ? if you take these examples and probably your experience in the shows you've seen. It is damn near impossible to get one without another negative attribute. EXAMPLE--- Big Money=Bagging "even if said promotor says absolutely no bagging it happens and gets missed" Heats and Feature=bagging "save the car mentality" Big money Big show--- "Scares away a lot of the people that don't think they are able to run big shows and don't have a group or know people running so called big show" OLD IRON or 80 Newer only= "couple old iron guys mad cause not allowed, Vic guys don't want old iron allowed, some don't care at all and probably the only group that will show up with car... I think area time of year is huge part of it... Good luck sounds like a good idea... Ever consider a battle of the states? Was always an idea i had. Say WI started it. "you" Start a private group for each state and have them talk amongst each other and come up with 20 of the so called best builders and drivers in the state and get them entered into it. Say 10 old iron and 10 New iron. Be it they have to trade amongst each other if one doesn't wanna run a new style but has no old iron or whatever they come up with but must be 10/10. Say you do 4 states WI MN IL IA.... 80 cars. draw heats 10 cars per heat put each state in a bucket and pull one from each and go back through and pull another from each. 10 cars 2 per state taking top 2... 16 car feature possible almost all one state could make it or not. Say 1st state to lose all their drivers is out of the draw for the next time the show happens. Winning state show gets to stay there. 10g, 5g, 3g, 1g to win. 500 entry fee winning state all drivers get their entry fee back. 80x500=40,000 19g in payout. So now at 21,000 20 winning state get money back 10,000g for them.... Now you have 11,000 to figure out where to spend it. B-main,Consi, Hard driver. top finisher from each state. Heat win money. Who knows.... Maybe the state pride and the honor of being picked for this show would make people wanna run it... Then Last place state is out and can pick a new state to represent themselves next year.... Just a dream i had.... The Midwest massacre. Hell do 5 states, 100 cars. Have tech officials from each state there. I think difficult part would be agreeing on rules. Concept is cool though. Could do mad dogs per state and overall mad dog as well. |
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Post by amkear613 on Aug 14, 2021 19:07:23 GMT -5
Awesome show?? Please explain what an awesome show is? Examples below Ton of drivers? Hard Hitting fast paced? Mad dog recognition BIG MONEY?? 5k 10k to win? Paying down 10,9,8,7,6,5 ? if you take these examples and probably your experience in the shows you've seen. It is damn near impossible to get one without another negative attribute. EXAMPLE--- Big Money=Bagging "even if said promotor says absolutely no bagging it happens and gets missed" Heats and Feature=bagging "save the car mentality" Big money Big show--- "Scares away a lot of the people that don't think they are able to run big shows and don't have a group or know people running so called big show" OLD IRON or 80 Newer only= "couple old iron guys mad cause not allowed, Vic guys don't want old iron allowed, some don't care at all and probably the only group that will show up with car... I think area time of year is huge part of it... Good luck sounds like a good idea... Ever consider a battle of the states? Was always an idea i had. Say WI started it. "you" Start a private group for each state and have them talk amongst each other and come up with 20 of the so called best builders and drivers in the state and get them entered into it. Say 10 old iron and 10 New iron. Be it they have to trade amongst each other if one doesn't wanna run a new style but has no old iron or whatever they come up with but must be 10/10. Say you do 4 states WI MN IL IA.... 80 cars. draw heats 10 cars per heat put each state in a bucket and pull one from each and go back through and pull another from each. 10 cars 2 per state taking top 2... 16 car feature possible almost all one state could make it or not. Say 1st state to lose all their drivers is out of the draw for the next time the show happens. Winning state show gets to stay there. 10g, 5g, 3g, 1g to win. 500 entry fee winning state all drivers get their entry fee back. 80x500=40,000 19g in payout. So now at 21,000 20 winning state get money back 10,000g for them.... Now you have 11,000 to figure out where to spend it. B-main,Consi, Hard driver. top finisher from each state. Heat win money. Who knows.... Maybe the state pride and the honor of being picked for this show would make people wanna run it... Then Last place state is out and can pick a new state to represent themselves next year.... Just a dream i had.... The Midwest massacre. Hell do 5 states, 100 cars. Have tech officials from each state there. I think difficult part would be agreeing on rules. Concept is cool though. Could do mad dogs per state and overall mad dog as well. Or do same concept in eastern, western, Midwest and southern regions and then take the winning teams and do a finale at end of year. |
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hemi
Heat Winner
Posts: 300
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Post by hemi on Aug 15, 2021 21:24:46 GMT -5
I have seen in the past that having more than one promoter involved in a show usually does not work.Everyone has there own way of doing things.Usually big money brings out the best money drivers,smart drivers,sandbaggers (whatever term you want to use).I've always said why pay 1st place a huge amount then have big drop of money for the rest ? Everyone there has money in getting there.I usually have paid back top 10 in past at my little small hometown derby every year.Hard Hitters get rewarded at my show more than the person who wants to be on a sunday drive. Inspection is done by me on fullsize,yes every car not just one.I have also flagged every one of my shows personally,problem is getting rest of officials on same page as me.I try my best to be fair with everyone and make it a fast hard hitting show.I like to give the crowd something to talk about good or bad.Somethings are out of my control,but I've never been to a perfect derby in over 45 years.Way I look at it for me being a nobody,I have accomplished and proved several people wrong about how to put on a demolition derby in last 11 years.Am I perfect,hell no.But is kinda funny seeing alot of places change there rules or add classes because of things I have tried here and it worked well.Maybe a little ego trip for myself.One thing for certain you will get a fair shake and treated with respect unless you try to double cross me day of.Anyways think got a pretty good idea on what I want to accomplish at the next demolition derby I have.Some will like it,some won't.One thing I learned along time ago you will never please everyone... Jeremy
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Post by settleit on Aug 17, 2021 0:28:01 GMT -5
May sound like a dumb idea, but hear me out.
10k purse for the class
1st 2000
2nd 1750
3rd 1500
4th 1250
5th 1000
Which leaves 2500. Take that 2500 and have a chance system using random.org or something alike that is fair(numbered ping pong balls, poker chips, etc).
1st 5 points (1/3 chance)
2nd 4
3rd 3
4th 2
5th 1
At the end of the feature, draw for the winner. I would throw in a kicker though. Bring out the pink spray paint for sandbagging. If you get the paint for bagging, you forfeit any chance at the extra $2500. For instance, 4th place would have a 2/15 chance at the 2500, BUT if 1st was painted 4th would effectively have a 2/10 chance.
Haven't really seen anyone do closer payouts. I would think with such small difference from spot to spot a guy would try to finish a car rather than outlast them once in the top 5.
If you look at lets say a 25 car one shot deal that lasts 40 minutes, 15 of them are going to be out in the first 10 and it slowly battle out for the top 3 traditionally. Would be cool to see if it would change the last halfs pace a bit.
** didn't even think about maddogs. If heats and feature, pull heat maddogs and give them 2 points. Feature maddog could recieve 3 or 4 points, with heat maddogs stacking if they also get a heat and feature maddog(5 or 6 points). Maybe pull $1000 off the 2500 for maddogs and make it a $1500 pot instead? Could be refined a little better, but I could see the system working.
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Post by amkear613 on Aug 17, 2021 18:38:44 GMT -5
For comments making a hard hitting show. Consider multiple mad dogs. For instance 3 maddogs with crowd choice on top maddog. Say two maddogs and one crazy mofo lol. 5k split 1500 1500 1500 with 500 extra to the voted top maddog. Or 3500 with 1000x3 and 500 bonus etc. just an idea
If heats I always like when they pull aggressive drivers to main.
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hemi
Heat Winner
Posts: 300
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Post by hemi on Aug 18, 2021 18:05:42 GMT -5
Some awsome ideas being thrown out there,the biggest problem in my area is getting sponsors to increase the overall payout for drivers and mad dogs.I really think when it comes down to it money is what eliminates how big a show can become,people won't compete for couple hundred dollars like in the 70's and 80's.I don't blame them one bit,this sport has become expensive in last 10 years.I still got time to get my ducks in a row for the 2022 season,been in contact with several drivers already.So hopefully we can pull off one more qreat event like the ones we had in the past.
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noser23x
Feature Winner
R.W.C.
Posts: 1,969
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Post by noser23x on Aug 19, 2021 11:34:29 GMT -5
Depends on what your definition of awesome is. I enjoy a hard hitting show with a 15 minute feature, but also enjoy a methodical 1-2 hour feature as well from a viewer stand point. Huge money isn't the answer, Utah just did a show with advertised 50k 1st place (no comment how that turned out) and had 35 cars, first year at Capital Carnage was 30k to win and had 50 cars.
Pace of show always is determined by the people showing up and the build. Any of these shows paying 5k for maddog or whatever, maybe 5-10% are actually trying for the maddog. A "big" show gets a certain group of drivers, and they are going to try and drive to win. Just did a show where Maddog was 66% of first place, only 1 person even tried for it.
Make a big show, make a decent build that the car can withstand a guy hammering it for a few minutes, and fill it with small county fair drivers. There's your key to success.
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owen11x
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Ford makes it, Chevy shakes it, Mopar breaks it!
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Post by owen11x on Aug 19, 2021 16:49:51 GMT -5
Truth of the matter even though it kills me to say it....midsize guys and manvans are the hot ticket and them guys n gals are sending it for the show hands down pay 5k to win with a 25 min time limit, and open up the bar and watch things get trashed
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Post by derbyfan83 on Aug 19, 2021 20:22:48 GMT -5
Would you do a pre-entry show and if you advertise a big purse would it push it to a 2 day show or are you confined to a 1 day event? Perhaps in addition of doing mad dogs which can be subjective to drivers with larger groups in the stands or judges own perhaps bias, consider doing multiple highest front bumper awards. It encourages drivers to be aggressors and go for it w/out lots of bagging. I've been a part of a show that's done this for 7 years with good results and other locals shows have adopted it as well.
I think most guys want a fair inspection and to know it's not a team show on the track. If they think they have a legit shot at least placing if they have a good setups they'll all feel better after the show regardless where they'll finish. If you guarantee say $3K to win you should have a good percentage of guys who want to put on a show. Some sorta of limited weld or pro-stock style rules might bring in the most numbers. Cars bend at end of the night but still provide decent run times before being junked. Any engine, any year minus Imps/subs, no frame welding, no dp, 5 bolt rear, basic 4 point cage with roll over bar, no rear window bars, weld drivers door solid with perhaps total of 18" of welds on vertical door seams. Unlimited 9 wire double stranded in windows and trunk lid if not running rod. Replace front and rear mounts with threaded rod through 4 spots in hood area and trunk. Car must run stock style suspension but bounce can be left up to driver. I'd like to see a show that didn't allow cold bending/tilting cause to me it gives an extra advantage to all the new iron but doubt that would fly. If you locals have pre-fabbed bumpers then allow them. Any year bumper.
Start promoting a year in advance if possible. Sponsors help tremendously if there are those in the are interested.
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