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Post by luv2hit on Oct 20, 2020 17:29:09 GMT -5
I have been trying to find out what’s so special about the 14 bolt and Dana 60, besides being full floaters. Are the axles way stronger/ bigger then a 31 splined 9 inch? Please HELP wanting to build one just want to learn about which route to go... thanks
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Post by dean88 on Oct 20, 2020 19:14:55 GMT -5
Dana 60 isnt strong at all (in comparison to other full floaters)
Anyway heres is my breakdown (Im comparing these all as full floaters to one another)
14 bolt has the strongest gear setup because the pinion has 3 bearings and is a 10.5 ring gear, in stock unshaved form pumpkin does hang down pretty low. Axle shafts are 30 spline but are 1.5" diameter. The axle tubes themselves are also very beefy at 4" od 1/2 wall
Dana 60 has the smallest ring gear (9.75) and axles are a 30 spline and only like 1.3 inch shafts iirc and generally have smaller diameter tubes (3.5 inch iirc). There are some variations to those specs, but generally they were on really old stuff and less desirable.
Dana 70 is pretty much an equivalent to the 14 bolt in size and strength, axles are 35 spline 1.5" (in most variations). My problem with D70s are there are multiple variations of them and parts interchangeability can be a pain
Lastly is the Sterling 10.25. 10.25 ring gear, 35 spline 1.5 inch axles and 4 inch tubes. Pumpkin doesn't hang as low as a 14 bolt, but for some reason bearings are crazy expensive in them compared to the other 3.
Lastly you can make a D60 hybrid by using a D60 full float housing and gears, carrier from a D60 semi float which is 35 spline, and then 35 spline shafts from a D70 to have big axles and the smallest lightest housing.
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Post by dean88 on Oct 20, 2020 19:17:57 GMT -5
You may be hearing Dana 60 thrown around by offroad guys talking about front axles, in that case D60 is the best front (factory) axle you can get until you jump into military axles.
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Post by DerbyKing88s on Oct 20, 2020 19:45:14 GMT -5
Dean gave them majority of the run down but additional benefits of the 14 bolt specifically is the shear amount of parts available since they are used in lots of applications. Also a shaved 14 bolt (15 bolt) will have the most ground clearance of the main derby rearends if not all. The fact that they are full floaters is very nice and if you wish you can change to 40 spline axles but then loose the full floater aspect of it. In my opinion and those of rearend builders they are the only rearends will hold up to some specific types of wheel set ups.
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Post by dean88 on Oct 20, 2020 21:19:37 GMT -5
billavista.com/tech/Articles/14-Bolt_Bible/index.htmlRead that website if you want to know every in an out of the 14 bolt. Honestly if your are looking for advice on a full floater, the off road world figured those things out long before the derby world even thought of building one. Any before anyone hits me with, "the offroad world is crazy, they like the 8.8 over a 10 bolt" There is a big difference between a vic and a truck 8.8 and a car and truck 10 bolt. The truck 10 bolt is pretty weak.
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noser23x
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Post by noser23x on Oct 20, 2020 23:59:39 GMT -5
Think these cats have you all covered. If your looking to start fresh always go 14 bolt, if you are already set up in the Dana world its serviceable. 14 bolts are so easy to fix, find parts, spare axles, etc. Shaving there's a few options, 15 bolt, 13 bolt, or if your tracks are decently hard just run them in the stock configuration. 13 bolt from Barnes 4x4 is really easy and cheap. Just a new shaved cover, buy it, put it on, it comes with a guide how to shave it and you can take a good portion of the lower hanging portion off (1-1/8"), and you don't have to shave the ring gear. If your looking to get into bigger shows, you can build a full rearend for under 2,000 (I'll post a picture below of one I did), that includes full spool, gears, pinion brake, all new studs, lug nuts, internal seals, shave kit, braced, etc. Or if your on a budget, these carriers welded up are one of the strongest. I've done countless with no issues, I just like the simplicity of a full spool. As mentioned above, the 14 bolt bible should be saved in your book marks.  upload pic |
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noser23x
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Post by noser23x on Oct 21, 2020 0:05:46 GMT -5
billavista.com/tech/Articles/14-Bolt_Bible/index.htmlRead that website if you want to know every in an out of the 14 bolt. Honestly if your are looking for advice on a full floater, the off road world figured those things out long before the derby world even thought of building one. Any before anyone hits me with, "the offroad world is crazy, they like the 8.8 over a 10 bolt" There is a big difference between a vic and a truck 8.8 and a car and truck 10 bolt. The truck 10 bolt is pretty weak. I did some digging in the old derby archives, this is from David Bryant from RaptorFab moons ago. Everyone hates on the 8.8, little bit of work they can be serviceable, and if your putting money into a set up chopping off the ends and putting BIA ends on makes them a neat little set up for stocker shows. "FORD 8.8" car housing assemblies. (Also, Ford pickup 86' and newer, good for gear sets, or leaf cars); Good gears, bad shafts. "C" clip style axle shafts. In all respects, a "copy" of the famous GM 10 bolt 8.5" assembly. Possibly a little better with the bigger carrier bearings. Will bolt in a 71' - 76' GM sedan, full size. Plenty of Ford gear sets, and after-market gear sets available. 31, 33, and 35 spline full spools available ($205 list price from Moser). Uses the SAME carrier bearings as the GM "C" 12 bolt housing. Set up is the same as the GM 10 bolt. The housing strength is the same as the GM 10 bolt housing. "Large" round factory, pinion yokes are common. Cut and weld on housings ends, for bolt in axle shafts, for a very good housing assembly. If you want to run 35 spline axle shafts, in a factory stock looking housing, this is the one to choose. Bolts in to newer Ford cars because, well, that is where they come from." |
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demoboy333
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Post by demoboy333 on Oct 21, 2020 5:22:02 GMT -5
I didn't know you could shave 14 bolt with out shaving the ring gear. Might have to look into it.
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Post by amkear613 on Oct 21, 2020 6:20:19 GMT -5
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noser23x
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Post by noser23x on Oct 21, 2020 7:17:03 GMT -5
Thicker gears shouldn't matter, OD stays the same they are just cut thicker to make up for the pinion diameter changing. There's a few ways to go about shaving one, but to make it quick, there's the Barnes kit and then TMR has two kits, these are 15 bolt kits. One you have to shave the ring gear, one you don't. On the one you don't, you have to cut more then the Barnes kit and weld a plate on that comes with the 2 bolt holes to make it a 15 bolt. Barnes kit all you need is a Sawzall and a grinder and you lose a bolt. Shaving a ring gear you gain about 1-3/8" clearance, no shaving you get about 1-1/8". For my money I'd rather just to do the easy cheap one, and live with hanging 1/4" lower, but your mileage may vary. |
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Post by amkear613 on Oct 21, 2020 8:14:42 GMT -5
Thicker gears shouldn't matter, OD stays the same they are just cut thicker to make up for the pinion diameter changing. There's a few ways to go about shaving one, but to make it quick, there's the Barnes kit and then TMR has two kits, these are 15 bolt kits. One you have to shave the ring gear, one you don't. On the one you don't, you have to cut more then the Barnes kit and weld a plate on that comes with the 2 bolt holes to make it a 15 bolt. Barnes kit all you need is a Sawzall and a grinder and you lose a bolt. Shaving a ring gear you gain about 1-3/8" clearance, no shaving you get about 1-1/8". For my money I'd rather just to do the easy cheap one, and live with hanging 1/4" lower, but your mileage may vary. I didn’t know the Barnes kit existed until you shared it so thank you. That’s something within my skill set and budget. I’d love to go crazy in derby but I’m just a hobbyist. I might just do that kit, wrap the rear in box tubing and make axle savers and break down and buy a pinion brake for it and call it good for a while. |
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demoboy333
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Post by demoboy333 on Oct 21, 2020 8:39:14 GMT -5
I started to build a 14 bolt but just ran my 9 inch 31 spline. But I'm wanting another rearend and I got 2 14 bolts laying at house.
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noser23x
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Post by noser23x on Oct 21, 2020 11:13:10 GMT -5
Thicker gears shouldn't matter, OD stays the same they are just cut thicker to make up for the pinion diameter changing. There's a few ways to go about shaving one, but to make it quick, there's the Barnes kit and then TMR has two kits, these are 15 bolt kits. One you have to shave the ring gear, one you don't. On the one you don't, you have to cut more then the Barnes kit and weld a plate on that comes with the 2 bolt holes to make it a 15 bolt. Barnes kit all you need is a Sawzall and a grinder and you lose a bolt. Shaving a ring gear you gain about 1-3/8" clearance, no shaving you get about 1-1/8". For my money I'd rather just to do the easy cheap one, and live with hanging 1/4" lower, but your mileage may vary. I didn’t know the Barnes kit existed until you shared it so thank you. That’s something within my skill set and budget. I’d love to go crazy in derby but I’m just a hobbyist. I might just do that kit, wrap the rear in box tubing and make axle savers and break down and buy a pinion brake for it and call it good for a while. Find a friend with a plasma! Might make bracing it a little easier. grabcad.com/library/dfc-3c-1 |
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Post by amkear613 on Oct 21, 2020 12:38:09 GMT -5
I didn’t know the Barnes kit existed until you shared it so thank you. That’s something within my skill set and budget. I’d love to go crazy in derby but I’m just a hobbyist. I might just do that kit, wrap the rear in box tubing and make axle savers and break down and buy a pinion brake for it and call it good for a while. Find a friend with a plasma! Might make bracing it a little easier. grabcad.com/library/dfc-3c-1I don’t have any friends with those that I know of anyway but I was looking hard at those files when you released them! Might contact one of those vendors you listed |
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demoboy333
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Post by demoboy333 on Oct 21, 2020 14:27:23 GMT -5
I don’t have any friends with those that I know of anyway but I was looking hard at those files when you released them! Might contact one of those vendors you listed talk with a local fabrication shop that's what I did. Got decent prices |
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