|
Post by smashincwa on Dec 4, 2015 22:59:08 GMT -5
Again, there will not be an explanation as to how it functions in a derby engine that justifies it. If actual testing showed it worked, I would probably do it. Testing shows it does not. Other than the test engines in my shop with them, I have never put them in. Want to know how many hundreds of wins without them? Me too, because I lost count. How many big show wins without them? Mayhem, spring explosion, fall brawl, border wars, blizzard bash, xddl, hot rockin fourth, etc etc etc etc. and that one silly engine at blizzard bash that hasn't been freshened in over three years with over $40,000 in wins on it. All seems like basic stuff to do to learn before thinking something works. But nobody wants to learn anymore. Wait, I do. Scott, It's observational data. Inferring causation from observational data is problematic. This is like saying: A roundback wagon always wins at mayhem. I have a roundback wagon I will win mayhem see the following: en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Problem_of_inductionen.wikipedia.org/wiki/Internal_validityen.wikipedia.org/wiki/External_validityAristotelian concept: We can never know the truth with certainty. What we can know is successive approximations of it that make us less ignorant than we were before we reasoned thru the new evidence. If piston squirters don't work and you've tested them, let's see your data. It doesn't work you say. Should we take that at face value? hmm. Oh wait, I'm not asking you, I'm asking the forum.
|
|
|
Post by seventyonehemicuda on Dec 5, 2015 11:02:43 GMT -5
^^^^^WTF???
-There is a claim: "Piston squirters make derby motors good"
-The burden of proof lies on the persons or persons making the claim to provide the evidence.
-When Scott steps in and questions your claim by saying "prove it" the burden of proof is still on you the person making the claim.
-Nobody is obligated to accept any claim until it is proven to be true.
-No claim should be accepted to be true until someone disproves it. ie. you can't prove i don't have an invisible pink unicorn in my garage, therefore it's true..? If I should claim to have a pink unicorn in my garage... its up to me to prove it to you, its not your job to prove me that i don't have one.
this is basic logic.
|
|
19x
Future Icon
most hated motorsports
Posts: 63
|
Post by 19x on Dec 5, 2015 11:31:09 GMT -5
Again, we still don't have an answer. I heard everyone at Blizzard bash talking about how you have to have these things or you can't win. I want to know why. Why can't it be explained. I know many people out there love to prove me wrong. So I'm looking to be proven wrong. 19x, just so we're clear, this wasn't intended for you. A question on a forum. Waiting for the answer. Okay yes I'm in the same boat I want to see the facts on these to, but being in the business so long you've had to of experienced them gor your self or tested them, basically I started this forum for facts on if they work or not and you don't know how many hour and hours I have researched going in to my motor I am building know, I have probably 2 months of straight research going into this motor weather to build a 355 with 5.7 rods or thinking oh this will be less stress on the motor if I build a 383 with 6.000 rods and a bunch of other sh*** trust me iv done my research I work seasonal and I have had a straight two months of research so don't tell me you can ready my experience level by what I'm saying. I have plenty of experience rebuilding motors and this just happens to be my first derby build so that's why I'm asking?
|
|
noser23x
Feature Winner
R.W.C.
Posts: 1,969
|
Post by noser23x on Dec 5, 2015 14:23:58 GMT -5
^^^^^WTF??? -There is a claim: "Piston squirters make derby motors good" -The burden of proof lies on the persons or persons making the claim to provide the evidence. -When Scott steps in and questions your claim by saying "prove it" the burden of proof is still on you the person making the claim. -Nobody is obligated to accept any claim until it is proven to be true. -No claim should be accepted to be true until someone disproves it. ie. you can't prove i don't have an invisible pink unicorn in my garage, therefore it's true..? If I should claim to have a pink unicorn in my garage... its up to me to prove it to you, its not your job to prove me that i don't have one. this is basic logic. Oh great here we go doing school stuff again. Lol. In reality logic is simple (for those that care), and if anyone has knowledge in logic, its probably Scott being he is a lawyer. (Not saying for sure, do remember getting told Logic is essential in that stuff). Alright back to motors or whatever.
|
|
|
Post by STROMI 121 on Dec 5, 2015 14:39:38 GMT -5
I'm not sure about all this logic stuff. It doesn't seem very logical to get into a car accident on purpose.
|
|
|
Post by scottgropp on Dec 5, 2015 14:48:29 GMT -5
Again, we still don't have an answer. I heard everyone at Blizzard bash talking about how you have to have these things or you can't win. I want to know why. Why can't it be explained. I know many people out there love to prove me wrong. So I'm looking to be proven wrong. 19x, just so we're clear, this wasn't intended for you. A question on a forum. Waiting for the answer. Okay yes I'm in the same boat I want to see the facts on these to, but being in the business so long you've had to of experienced them gor your self or tested them, basically I started this forum for facts on if they work or not and you don't know how many hour and hours I have researched going in to my motor I am building know, I have probably 2 months of straight research going into this motor weather to build a 355 with 5.7 rods or thinking oh this will be less stress on the motor if I build a 383 with 6.000 rods and a bunch of other sh*** trust me iv done my research I work seasonal and I have had a straight two months of research so don't tell me you can ready my experience level by what I'm saying. I have plenty of experience rebuilding motors and this just happens to be my first derby build so that's why I'm asking? Two whole months? Research as in reading? Won't tell you much. But I already knew that because if you are thinking about building a 6" rod 383, you're already headed in a poor direction. The problem here is that you don't even know why. Research isn't just about reading things about engines from other motorsports. It is about testing in the shop before you ever derby. Then derbying and opening it up after use and learning some more. I remember back in the day taking 6 cams in and out on one day to measure exhaust temps on a specific research project I was doing. I look back at some of my learning projects and there are some tests that really shaped how I built engines that won so much. Some had very critical info, some just blew things up. I guess it was fun when I was younger. Which is what makes me mad when some of these hack builders copy my stuff. It came at a price to me. But hey, go ahead and read something and throw it together. I'll give you another hint. Most of the info about derby engines on here is wrong.
|
|
99x
Feature Winner
Most hated motorsports
Posts: 1,197
|
Post by 99x on Dec 5, 2015 14:56:08 GMT -5
Good thing Scott's engines don't get hot..... that would have burned
|
|
|
Post by NoDakSmack on Dec 5, 2015 15:00:51 GMT -5
Scott, he'll get data when he ignores everything and goes ahead and tries it, but I doubt we'll ever hear about the results.
|
|
|
Post by scottgropp on Dec 5, 2015 15:03:28 GMT -5
With electric water pump and a electric fan they cool down pretty quick. Had the battery charger on it all day. The test that sucked more than that day was weighing about 40 various cylinder head castings, and then cutting them up to see where the meat was in them. Amazing the inner passage variations on even the same casting number head based on core shift during casting. Cutting them with a cheap band saw was also an adventure.
|
|
19x
Future Icon
most hated motorsports
Posts: 63
|
Post by 19x on Dec 5, 2015 15:07:17 GMT -5
Okay yes I'm in the same boat I want to see the facts on these to, but being in the business so long you've had to of experienced them gor your self or tested them, basically I started this forum for facts on if they work or not and you don't know how many hour and hours I have researched going in to my motor I am building know, I have probably 2 months of straight research going into this motor weather to build a 355 with 5.7 rods or thinking oh this will be less stress on the motor if I build a 383 with 6.000 rods and a bunch of other sh*** trust me iv done my research I work seasonal and I have had a straight two months of research so don't tell me you can ready my experience level by what I'm saying. I have plenty of experience rebuilding motors and this just happens to be my first derby build so that's why I'm asking? Two whole months? Research as in reading? Won't tell you much. But I already knew that because if you are thinking about building a 6" rod 383, you're already headed in a poor direction. The problem here is that you don't even know why. Research isn't just about reading things about engines from other motorsports. It is about testing in the shop before you ever derby. Then derbying and opening it up after use and learning some more. I remember back in the day taking 6 cams in and out on one day to measure exhaust temps on a specific research project I was doing. I look back at some of my learning projects and there are some tests that really shaped how I built engines that won so much. Some had very critical info, some just blew things up. I guess it was fun when I was younger. Which is what makes me mad when some of these hack builders copy my stuff. It came at a price to me. But hey, go ahead and read something and throw it together. I'll give you another hint. Most of the info about derby engines on here is wrong. Instead of tell me I'm heading in the wrong direction why don't you give me facts instead of telling me it won't work and yes I do it moves the wrist pin into the oil ring and 6 cams who's has the money to but 6 cams and a decent one at that and I don't for engine info on here anyways I get it from other sources and no not just reading I also talk to a couple engine builders and get there opinions on what I'm doing and I ask for info and all you do is give your opinion aren't you all about the facts, then give me the facts of why a 6in rod is so bad and tell me then what's better build 355 or 383 but give me the facts on why
|
|
|
Post by triplerracer on Dec 5, 2015 21:58:04 GMT -5
Why would he just give out all the info he has worked so hard at? There are four pages of people telling you to listen to what he has to say yet until just recently you wouldn't listen. You say you have talked to a couple engine builders? What engines do they build? Street motors, circle track, demo, little two horse garden tiller motors?..... If I was Scott I wouldn't even be wasting my time trying to explain stuff to you, you clearly have your mind made up on what you want to build so build it and move on. Rant over.....oh wait try some PUNCTUATION!
|
|
19x
Future Icon
most hated motorsports
Posts: 63
|
Post by 19x on Dec 5, 2015 22:41:33 GMT -5
Why would he just give out all the info he has worked so hard at? There are four pages of people telling you to listen to what he has to say yet until just recently you wouldn't listen. You say you have talked to a couple engine builders? What engines do they build? Street motors, circle track, demo, little two horse garden tiller motors?..... If I was Scott I wouldn't even be wasting my time trying to explain stuff to you, you clearly have your mind made up on what you want to build so build it and move on. Rant over.....oh wait try some PUNCTUATION! Okay first of all what has he told me other than that's wrong and that's not gonna work, really are you kidding me he hasn't given me one shred of advice other than its a bad idea or its not gonna work, he said show the facts well he has all the facts I would love to learn and see the facts of why 6in rods are so bad and all he's doing is saying what don't work well instead if say oh 6in rods bad idea, then tell mewhat is better or what will work not just sit there saying no this, no that, give me results and what does it matter iv talk to derby engine builders and circle track builders. I have personally have done my own research over the years and know more than you guys think and what did he have to say the main word out of his out is "that won't work" instead of saying stuff like that he could be more like that has not been proven to work try this to point someone in the right direction, instead of just say bad idea or bad choice and I would also like to know how I have made up my mind on my build when I just flat out said debating between a 355 and 383 Read!!!
|
|
|
Post by Johnz12321 on Dec 5, 2015 22:58:28 GMT -5
Welllppp, here's my input to this thread: 1) Piston Squirters definitely probably may possibly do something, for sure. 2) Scott's Posts are exactly 666. 3) I used to know a girl that everyone knew as "pist on squirter" 4) I enjoy making numbered lists. 5) I really have nothing better to do in the derby offseason, other than work out of town and read wecrash wars. 6) Happy Holidays Everyone! Warm June summer weather is only 209 days away.
|
|
|
Post by triplerracer on Dec 5, 2015 23:31:51 GMT -5
I did read! Doesn't matter if it's a 355 or 383 or whatever. In your mind you've decided that piston squirters are helpful and you want to install them. So install them already! If it works for you, great! If not then it doesn't, live and learn.
|
|
|
Post by triplerracer on Dec 5, 2015 23:34:10 GMT -5
Welllppp, here's my input to this thread: 1) Piston Squirters definitely probably may possibly do something, for sure. 2) Scott's Posts are exactly 666. 3) I used to know a girl that everyone knew as "pist on squirter" 4) I enjoy making numbered lists. 5) I really have nothing better to do in the derby offseason, other than work out of town and read wecrash wars. 6) Happy Holidays Everyone! Warm June summer weather is only 209 days away. I like the last part of number 5!
|
|