19x
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Post by 19x on Nov 23, 2015 23:07:46 GMT -5
Don't tell me what others have told you. Think for yourself and tell me how it works. What size squirter do you need with what weight oil at what oil temp and what rpm to hit the bottom of the piston crown? Or is that even where you want the oil shot? Where on the stroke cycle are you hitting it? If oil temp changes, then what? If not hitting the right place, what is it really doing? If cylinder distortion occurs at higher temps can the rings wipe the cylinders with the excess oil not hitting the right places? Discuss oil temp with and without squirters. Give me details. NASCAR engines run specific oil temps and limited rpm ranges with tight clearances. Drag engines and tractor pullers run for very short times. We do niether. If you need to save your pistons with an oil squirter maybe you should figure out what the piston needs to live without it. Do some real world testing and tell me specific numbers in a winning derby engine at full stress. will do cause this is my BB motor I'm building for next year and these are not pressure sensitive they are going as soon as the engine is started so it will hit no matter what stroke its on and nascar is irrelevant they have a radiator the whole time they run they also are going 200 mph so they basically have air cooling affect on the engine to and tractor/truck are also irrelevant have coolers the whole time they also most of them run water meth for cooling and drag engines run alky whitch burns at 57,000 btu so that also helps there motor stay cool to and they also only run for 4 secs max and all I was saying was what I was told by other builders no need to get angry with me just stating my opinion
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19x
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Post by 19x on Nov 23, 2015 23:10:02 GMT -5
well this is a circle track motor I'm going through and doing some work to. I think it will help keep the motor cool with the squirters in there and also wont have to worrie about detonation issues when getting warmer, I also wont have to second guess about the wrist pin seizing. I also have an air gap intake, that's what's going on it. I will also have 7qt pan on it. I will also have have arp in the motor bottom end and everything and I want to build my own to show u don't have to buy a 5000 motor to have a decent motor iv spent maybe 1500 so far on what I have into it and I'm looking into a 4-7 swap lunati roller cam too.i will also be using a hi vol dirt track oil pump and using clevite h-series bearings in rod and mains and also the heads are setup for full roller double coil spring setup with 7/16 screw in studs and scorpion roller rockers and push rod guides. What class are you running? What rpm and horsepower range? Are you running a forged aftermarket crank or cast? Full weld/Team and around 5000-6000 rpm and 450-500 hp and it will be a forged scat crank
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Post by scottgropp on Nov 23, 2015 23:23:36 GMT -5
Don't tell me what others have told you. Think for yourself and tell me how it works. What size squirter do you need with what weight oil at what oil temp and what rpm to hit the bottom of the piston crown? Or is that even where you want the oil shot? Where on the stroke cycle are you hitting it? If oil temp changes, then what? If not hitting the right place, what is it really doing? If cylinder distortion occurs at higher temps can the rings wipe the cylinders with the excess oil not hitting the right places? Discuss oil temp with and without squirters. Give me details. NASCAR engines run specific oil temps and limited rpm ranges with tight clearances. Drag engines and tractor pullers run for very short times. We do niether. If you need to save your pistons with an oil squirter maybe you should figure out what the piston needs to live without it. Do some real world testing and tell me specific numbers in a winning derby engine at full stress. will do cause this is my BB motor I'm building for next year and these are not pressure sensitive they are going as soon as the engine is started so it will hit no matter what stroke its on and nascar is irrelevant they have a radiator the whole time they run they also are going 200 mph so they basically have air cooling affect on the engine to and tractor/truck are also irrelevant have coolers the whole time they also most of them run water meth for cooling and drag engines run alky whitch burns at 57,000 btu so that also helps there motor stay cool to and they also only run for 4 secs max Hard to even follow any logic like that. Probably why guys get suckered into buying stuff.
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19x
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Post by 19x on Nov 23, 2015 23:26:51 GMT -5
Hydraulic roller cam will work at that rpm, higher you'd probably consider a solid. Just curious on crank because you said h-series and there's no need unless you're running a forged aftermarket. Okay thanks you for the advice ill look into one of those cams and yes that's the only reason I'm gonna run the h series is do to that aftermarket crank and i don't think ill go above 6000 rpm
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19x
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Post by 19x on Nov 23, 2015 23:31:45 GMT -5
will do cause this is my BB motor I'm building for next year and these are not pressure sensitive they are going as soon as the engine is started so it will hit no matter what stroke its on and nascar is irrelevant they have a radiator the whole time they run they also are going 200 mph so they basically have air cooling affect on the engine to and tractor/truck are also irrelevant have coolers the whole time they also most of them run water meth for cooling and drag engines run alky whitch burns at 57,000 btu so that also helps there motor stay cool to and they also only run for 4 secs max Hard to even follow any logic like that. Probably why guys get suckered into buying stuff. how is that hard to follow and yeah suckered like 4000$ for a full roller 5.7 vortec motor, i can do that to just add roller rockers and shorter push rods, look i have a full roller motor
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99x
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Post by 99x on Nov 23, 2015 23:38:05 GMT -5
We haven't had a good wecrash battle in awhile! It's been long over due but i did say it was about to get interesting lol just my two cents....
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Post by klicky96 on Nov 23, 2015 23:45:46 GMT -5
Seriously? Do you think that air is doing much of anything to an engine running 8k rpm? Really? It's not doing shoot. If I were you, I'd listen to mr. Gropp when he tells you something. Piston squirter do NOTHING in our engines.
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19x
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Post by 19x on Nov 23, 2015 23:59:47 GMT -5
Haha really what do you know lol 8k I think there spinning more like 9k or more lol
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Post by scottgropp on Nov 24, 2015 0:01:23 GMT -5
Hard to even follow any logic like that. Probably why guys get suckered into buying stuff. how is that hard to follow and yeah suckered like 4000$ for a full roller 5.7 vortec motor, i can do that to just add roller rockers and shorter push rods, look i have a full roller motor No point in explaining it because your post shows you have no understanding of it. They aren't pressure sensitive? Silly statement. Again, there will not be an explanation as to how it functions in a derby engine that justifies it. If actual testing showed it worked, I would probably do it. Testing shows it does not. Other than the test engines in my shop with them, I have never put them in. Want to know how many hundreds of wins without them? Me too, because I lost count. How many big show wins without them? Mayhem, spring explosion, fall brawl, border wars, blizzard bash, xddl, hot rockin fourth, etc etc etc etc. and that one silly engine at blizzard bash that hasn't been freshened in over three years with over $40,000 in wins on it. Do some research in the 4.6 ford cobra engines that used squirters. Find out why there are squirter delete kits to help them live. Test what happens when you use squirters as a crutch for not knowing how to build a winning derby engine and what happens when one squirter fails due to debris. All seems like basic stuff to do to learn before thinking something works. But nobody wants to learn anymore. Wait, I do.
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Post by klicky96 on Nov 24, 2015 0:09:11 GMT -5
You may want to check your facts there bud. They average between 7k to 9k. But hey, you're right what do I know? I can run my engine all night long and never hit 240.
Wait, hold on, is there other ways of cooling an engine? What? Did I hear that right? Bud you should really do your research before acting like you know everything. Piston squirters will hurt more than they help. Build your engine with correct clearances and use the correct viscosity of oil and you won't have to worry.
I applaud you for building your own engine and all. Trust me, best thing I've done. But don't ever think you know everything. When two, yes I said two, of the best engine builders in American derby history are trying to explain to you what you should do, you sit back and listen. If you're not gonna take the advice.that is given to you, you can pack up and pound salt. We are here to give advice. You act like $4k is so much for a brand new, built derby engine. Are you kidding me? You do realize that a reman longblock is $2k right? That's not including the vest derby heads you can buy, the best intake suitable for the engine, the best cam suitable for what you want to do, and the time and skill that gets put into it. We're not trying to be a**holes, we are just trying to prove you a point.
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19x
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Post by 19x on Nov 24, 2015 0:21:27 GMT -5
Yes you are you nice about it, he specifically said to state what I think about piston squirters and I did then turns around and goes straight dick mode,after that he didn't have to do that and yes I do know quite a bit about my stuff I will be building Mt bro 283 for next year and I thank you for your advice. He just didn't need to go straight up dick I was just stating my opinions and gropp my 7.3 diesel has pressure sensitive piston squirters in it don't tell me I know nothing
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Post by klicky96 on Nov 24, 2015 0:29:08 GMT -5
Yes you are you nice about it, he specifically said to state what I think about piston squirters and I did then turns around and goes straight dick mode,after that he didn't have to do that and yes I do know quite a bit about my stuff I will be building Mt bro 283 for next year and I thank you for your advice. He just didn't need to go straight up dick I was just stating my opinions and gropp my 7.3 diesel has pressure sensitive piston squirters in it don't tell me I know nothing I can tell you that 7.3 diesel isn't stock then. You're right, he didn't have to be a dick, and I'm not saying he was. You didn't actually explain why you thought squirters benefited the engine. We are here to give you advice, whether you take it or not, thats your choice.
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19x
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Post by 19x on Nov 24, 2015 0:33:33 GMT -5
But I did I go on to say how it will help detonation in the piston by keeping it cool do th the high compression and I thank you guys for all the advice I just want about to get pushed around for an opinion
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Post by crusher71 on Nov 24, 2015 0:36:43 GMT -5
OHHH, ITS GONNA GET INTERESTING ALRIGHT...... IN MY 33 YEARS OF RUNNING DERBIES, NOT ONE SINGLE "WRIST PIN" FAILURE. MANY, MANY WINS WITH DRYBLOCK ENGINES THAT WERE TORTURED TO THE POINT OF LOCKING UP.(HEY, A FEW DID BUT RAN THE NEXT DAY) I NEVER NEEDED PISTON SQUIRTERS. TEL ME WHY YOU DO? BECAUSE BALDWIN SAYS YOU DO?? KIND OF LIKE THEIR RECENT POST OF "OUR ENGINE WAS RUNNING FABULOUS, BUT WE HAD IGNITION/CARB/FUEL- PICK YOUR PROBLEM,PROBLEMS.... " IM SORRY DUDE, BUT WHEN I GOT TIRED OF RUNNING A REHASHED JUNKYARD 350, I SPENT MY MONEY WITH GROPP. I DIDNT WANT FANCY CRAP THAT WOULDNT WORK IN THE REAL DERBY WORLD, I WANTED TO BUY FROM THE GUY WHO SIMPLY HAS THE BEST DEMO DERBY WIN RECORD AROUND. I DONT NEED TO BE A GUINEA PIG FOR AN ENGINE BUILDER, SCOTT HAS IT DOWN AND DELIVERED A QUALITY ENGINE THAT PAID FOR ITSELF IN 3 SHOWS.... DO I RUN IT TO 9 GRAND?? NO NEED TO..... I NEEDED POWER, DEPNDABILITY, LONGEVITY AND THE ABILITY TO TOLERATE EXTREMES IN HEAT WHEN THE COOLING SYSTEM GETS COMPRIMISED.... PISTON SQUIRTERS??? WHY WOULD YOU EVER WANT TO BLEED EXCESS OIL OFF OF THE BEARINGS AND JOURNALS THAT DEPEND ON IT TO SURVIVE? DERBY ENGINES HAVE BEEN RUNNING JUST FINE WITHOUT SOME UN-NEEDED GARBAGE LIKE THAT ,THAT JUST LINES THE POCKETS OF THE BUILDER....HOW MANY MAJOR WINS DOES THE ENGINE BUILDER WHO WANTS YOU TO UPGRADE TO PISTON SQUIRTERS ACTUALLY HAVE UNDER HIS BELT? NOT AS MANY AS THE GUY WHO I TRUSTED WITH MY MONEY I CAN GUARANTEE THAT FACT... BEFORE YOU SPEND MONEY FOOLISHLY, ASK THE BUILDER.. HOW DOES THIS HELP? WHY DOES THIS HELP? WHO ELSE HAS AN ENGINE BUILT BY YOU THAT HAS THIS MOD? AND HOW MANY OTHER GREAT RUNNING DERBY ENGINES DONT HAVE IT INSTALLED??? PISTON SQUIRTERS ARE ON THE SAME LEVEL AS HEADER EVAC SYSTEMS.. A COMPLETE FARCE.....
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Post by crusher71 on Nov 24, 2015 0:41:00 GMT -5
OKAY. NOW THAT I READ YOUR LAST COMMENT, I REALIZE THAT YOU CANNOT BE GIVEN ADVICE. YOU KNOW IT ALL.. IF YOU HONESTLY THINK THAT PISTON SQUIRTERS WILL ELIMINATE DETONATION DUE TO HIGH COMPRESSION......... THE ANSWER IS EASY.. DONT RUN SUCH HIGH COMPRESSION.. YOUR ENGINE WILL GUARANTEED BE HARDER TO START AT 11 TO 1 THAN SAY, AT 9.5 TO 1 .. AND YES, EVEN WITH GREAT FUEL, (2 TANK SYSTEM PREFERRED) YOU CAN INEVITABLY RUN INTO DETONATION.. PISTON SQUIRTERS WONT BE MUCH HELP SLINGING HOT AERATED OIL ONTO THE UNDERSIDE OF THE PISTON WHEN ITS COMBUSTION CHAMBER PREIGNITION THAT NEEDS TO BE RESOLVED..... GOD HELP YOU......
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