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Post by derbyguy16x on Apr 15, 2013 14:32:53 GMT -5
From my understanding these heads can make a cheap upgrade for a derby motor. I have a set of an 80's sbm and plan on mildly milling and porting them with some 340 valve springs. Anybody have any input or experience running these heads?
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Post by Imperialist on Apr 16, 2013 0:56:36 GMT -5
Great bang for the buck! Watch the radius when porting... I have ran many sets of them.
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Post by derbyguy16x on Apr 16, 2013 12:29:32 GMT -5
I would probably take them to someone unless it wouldn't be too risky to try myself? I'm guessing it will be about $400 worth of work including the 3 angle valve job etc. I would appreciate it if you could shoot me a PM with some specifics on what you've tried.
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99x
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Post by 99x on Apr 16, 2013 13:07:22 GMT -5
straight pnumatic grinder with a 1/4 inlet and add a 1/4 rod with a slit in one end then add some scotchbright in the slit and have fun cleaning. leave em stock and let em buck!
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Post by derbyguy16x on Apr 17, 2013 9:36:59 GMT -5
You just volunteered yourself
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dm440c
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Post by dm440c on Apr 17, 2013 10:57:12 GMT -5
unless you are a porting whiz I wouldn't do much more than a basic clean-up and bowl blend, then port match. Or if you are independently wealthy and get off on spending money, send it out to be done.
...If you really want to spend money to make power, why are you doing it with a 318? The beauty of a 318 is that it is cheap and reliable without spending money. If your priority is horsepower and you are OK with throwing dollars at it, I would strongly suggest you put the cash into more displacement and work on a 360 instead.
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hemi1
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Post by hemi1 on Apr 17, 2013 11:01:46 GMT -5
unless you are a porting whiz I wouldn't do much more than a basic clean-up and bowl blend, then port match. Or if you are independently wealthy and get off on spending money, send it out to be done. ...If you really want to spend money to make power, why are you doing it with a 318? The beauty of a 318 is that it is cheap and reliable without spending money. If your priority is horsepower and you are OK with throwing dollars at it, I would strongly suggest you put the cash into more displacement and work on a 360 instead. totally agree.
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Post by Imperialist on Apr 17, 2013 14:48:49 GMT -5
I don't know, I love the short stroke and forged crank of the 318 and 273's for RPM. I have a hard time not flat footing any derby motor for as long as it runs. They are great stock as well.
I know a few racers that used 85+ swirl port heads on 360's. The are very close to the interceptor heads of the late 360's, and I wouldn't hesitate to throw a set on a 360... Gain a point of compression on a stock pooch 360 bottom end, mild pocket port in the garage on a rainy night, 340 springs, throw in a cam and let her eat.
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Post by derbyguy16x on Apr 18, 2013 8:25:37 GMT -5
I would much rather do a 360 too but 318's are all I got loose right now and I was putting head gaskets in this one anyhow. If "basic clean-up and bowl blend, then port match" is bang for buck I will go that route because I am on a budget. My plan was to do some minor headwork, up my cam, get a double roller timing chain and possibly switch over to roller rockers. I usually just run hei with gm two barrels but this summer I wanted something a little special without spending too much money. I'm tired of everyone in my area talking down mopower.
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Post by chevykillerx13 on Apr 18, 2013 12:54:32 GMT -5
I'm tired of everyone in my area talking down mopower. Most people that talk crap on Mopar are the ones who aren't smart enough to figure them out.......Chevy idiots.
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Post by blackmopar21 on Apr 21, 2013 10:34:58 GMT -5
Well you do know why it's called mopower don't you? Because dollar to dollar mopar will make MOPOWER than a Chevy:) So therefore they're jealous. Haha
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dm440c
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Post by dm440c on Apr 23, 2013 10:32:36 GMT -5
Not sure I agree with that, I think when it comes to throwing cash around it is generally cheaper to make power with a Brand X engine because the aftermarket support is stronger. The beauty of the Chrysler engines is that they are better engineered in the stock configuration which means you can do more with less, but the further you get from stock the more you have to spend to keep up with the other guys. Speaking in the most general terms of course, it is all relative.
The 318 heads have such tiny ports and valves that it is not the slam-dunk you think it is to put them on a 360. Yes you gain compression but you give those benefits right back in terms of airflow. If you fiddle fart long enough you may find some gains overall but by the time you get there you'll wonder why you didn't just go with aftermarket heads in the first place.
I preach this stuff all the time but I think a lot of guys are taking too schizophrenic of an approach to engine design. Not to discourage anyone from some adventurous pursuits into experimentation, but when it comes to engines you just can't have it all... everything that you do is a compromise. The smart engine builder understands compromise, understands how to prioritize, and puts together a total package that works together. Thinking in terms of the total package what the goals/priorities are prevents you from taking the long road to a short gain.
The engine builder needs to ask himself: What do you really want? Power, reliability, affordability, how much time do you want to put into it, what is the budget, what specifically are the goals.... think it through and put your resources only into the things that achieve the goals. Avoid all those mismatches of parts that result in two steps forward and one step back... or worse.
Lastly, what chaps my cheeks are the guys who throw some ill conceived experimentation together and then declare it a success suggesting others should do the same without actually having any kind of data to back their claim. Beware the placebo effect.... be aware that just because you expect in your mind that it will "run better" can mean that you perceive it to "run better" without actually knowing.
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Post by Imperialist on Apr 23, 2013 11:16:58 GMT -5
Not sure I agree with that, I think when it comes to throwing cash around it is generally cheaper to make power with a Brand X engine because the aftermarket support is stronger. The beauty of the Chrysler engines is that they are better engineered in the stock configuration which means you can do more with less, but the further you get from stock the more you have to spend to keep up with the other guys. Speaking in the most general terms of course, it is all relative. The 318 heads have such tiny ports and valves that it is not the slam-dunk you think it is to put them on a 360. Yes you gain compression but you give those benefits right back in terms of airflow. If you fiddle fart long enough you may find some gains overall but by the time you get there you'll wonder why you didn't just go with aftermarket heads in the first place. I preach this stuff all the time but I think a lot of guys are taking too schizophrenic of an approach to engine design. Not to discourage anyone from some adventurous pursuits into experimentation, but when it comes to engines you just can't have it all... everything that you do is a compromise. The smart engine builder understands compromise, understands how to prioritize, and puts together a total package that works together. Thinking in terms of the total package what the goals/priorities are prevents you from taking the long road to a short gain. The engine builder needs to ask himself: What do you really want? Power, reliability, affordability, how much time do you want to put into it, what is the budget, what specifically are the goals.... think it through and put your resources only into the things that achieve the goals. Avoid all those mismatches of parts that result in two steps forward and one step back... or worse. Lastly, what chaps my cheeks are the guys who throw some ill conceived experimentation together and then declare it a success suggesting others should do the same without actually having any kind of data to back their claim. Beware the placebo effect.... be aware that just because you expect in your mind that it will "run better" can mean that you perceive it to "run better" without actually knowing. Do you consider Mopar Muscle data to back a claim? It's where I got the idea... There is no "fiddle farting" around here or placebo effects. Bolt them on and out perform X and J heads! It's not always about valve size, that's why I mentioned to watch the radius while porting. I agree with the bad advise chapping me as well. Swirl Port Heads Chrysler's small-block cylinder head design changed very little until 1987 when the 302 casting (last three digits of the casting number), commonly known as the swirl port, was introduced. While the 302 casting, as well as the later 308 casting, were most commonly found on low-performance 318s, they shouldn't be overlooked for a performance build. Even with small 1.75-inch intake and 1.50-inch exhaust valves, the design of this head's heart-shaped quench-style combustion chamber makes it a good choice for mild to moderate performance. An engine with these heads in stock form will outperform an engine with stock X or J castings simply due to the improved combustion chamber design. Additionally, these heads have hardened valve seats, which make them compatible with unleaded fuel. The swirl port heads were utilized through 1991 (302 casting) and 1992 (308 casting) and respond well to port and bowl work, offering better power potential than all of the earlier small-block heads. Another nice feature of these heads is they utilize valvetrain and intake manifolds common to early small-blocks, so parts are readily available. Simply bolt these heads to your small-block and enjoy the extra power they provide. Read more: www.moparmusclemagazine.com/techarticles/engine/mopp_0607_mopar_cylinder_head/viewall.html#ixzz2RItcNJpQ
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Post by blackmopar21 on Apr 23, 2013 12:08:15 GMT -5
Not sure I agree with that, I think when it comes to throwing cash around it is generally cheaper to make power with a Brand X engine because the aftermarket support is stronger. The beauty of the Chrysler engines is that they are better engineered in the stock configuration which means you can do more with less, but the further you get from stock the more you have to spend to keep up with the other guys. Speaking in the most general terms of course, it is all relative. The 318 heads have such tiny ports and valves that it is not the slam-dunk you think it is to put them on a 360. Yes you gain compression but you give those benefits right back in terms of airflow. If you fiddle fart long enough you may find some gains overall but by the time you get there you'll wonder why you didn't just go with aftermarket heads in the first place. I preach this stuff all the time but I think a lot of guys are taking too schizophrenic of an approach to engine design. Not to discourage anyone from some adventurous pursuits into experimentation, but when it comes to engines you just can't have it all... everything that you do is a compromise. The smart engine builder understands compromise, understands how to prioritize, and puts together a total package that works together. Thinking in terms of the total package what the goals/priorities are prevents you from taking the long road to a short gain. The engine builder needs to ask himself: What do you really want? Power, reliability, affordability, how much time do you want to put into it, what is the budget, what specifically are the goals.... think it through and put your resources only into the things that achieve the goals. Avoid all those mismatches of parts that result in two steps forward and one step back... or worse. Lastly, what chaps my cheeks are the guys who throw some ill conceived experimentation together and then declare it a success suggesting others should do the same without actually having any kind of data to back their claim. Beware the placebo effect.... be aware that just because you expect in your mind that it will "run better" can mean that you perceive it to "run better" without actually knowing. Holy f@ck dude. Did I come off in a serious manner when I said that? It didn't seem so to me. It was a joke not a statement.
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Post by blackmopar21 on Apr 23, 2013 12:08:52 GMT -5
Not sure I agree with that, I think when it comes to throwing cash around it is generally cheaper to make power with a Brand X engine because the aftermarket support is stronger. The beauty of the Chrysler engines is that they are better engineered in the stock configuration which means you can do more with less, but the further you get from stock the more you have to spend to keep up with the other guys. Speaking in the most general terms of course, it is all relative. The 318 heads have such tiny ports and valves that it is not the slam-dunk you think it is to put them on a 360. Yes you gain compression but you give those benefits right back in terms of airflow. If you fiddle fart long enough you may find some gains overall but by the time you get there you'll wonder why you didn't just go with aftermarket heads in the first place. I preach this stuff all the time but I think a lot of guys are taking too schizophrenic of an approach to engine design. Not to discourage anyone from some adventurous pursuits into experimentation, but when it comes to engines you just can't have it all... everything that you do is a compromise. The smart engine builder understands compromise, understands how to prioritize, and puts together a total package that works together. Thinking in terms of the total package what the goals/priorities are prevents you from taking the long road to a short gain. The engine builder needs to ask himself: What do you really want? Power, reliability, affordability, how much time do you want to put into it, what is the budget, what specifically are the goals.... think it through and put your resources only into the things that achieve the goals. Avoid all those mismatches of parts that result in two steps forward and one step back... or worse. Lastly, what chaps my cheeks are the guys who throw some ill conceived experimentation together and then declare it a success suggesting others should do the same without actually having any kind of data to back their claim. Beware the placebo effect.... be aware that just because you expect in your mind that it will "run better" can mean that you perceive it to "run better" without actually knowing. Holy f@ck dude. Did I come off in a serious manner when I said that? It didn't seem so to me. It was a joke not a statement.
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