Punisher 66J
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Post by Punisher 66J on Jun 3, 2014 21:39:00 GMT -5
1970 & up dual field charging system (you don't have to use the starter relay.... I just show it as a jumper point for 12v feed) _____________________________________________________ points with a light to indicate ignition is "on". Alternatively, instead of taking it straight to ground you can connect this leg to the oil pressure switch on the top of the engine just behind the intake manifold to indicate the engine is not running based on oil pressure: _____________________________________________________ electronic ignition Ok now before I get tore apart here let it be known I am very VERY horrible with wiring. I have always had my uncle wire my cars with me helping and he passed away last year so I am doing it all alone. I can get the car to start and run with the way I have it wired. Its a HEI distributer like a chevy but made by skip white for a 318. So it will run no issues but I am having a hard time figuring out how to wire up the alternator or should I just say skrew it and not run it? I don't always run one but would like the ability to so I don't have to charge the battery 24/7. I am having a hard time understanding this diagram at the top cause I may be half retarded, with out the electronic ignitio and switched to HEI how would I wire up the alternator? " dm440c"
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Post by Imperialist on Jun 4, 2014 2:41:03 GMT -5
Separate switch for the alternator. You hit the switch when you want it to charge. The "box" in the top diagram is the voltage regulator. It is required to prevent over charging your battery. Think of it as a float in your toilet... it only allows amperage to flow as needed. What year alternator are you using?
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dm440c
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Post by dm440c on Jun 4, 2014 11:17:06 GMT -5
you guys are right on so far.
Chrysler took the high road and separated the voltage regulator from the alternator because this is functionally a better design. Derby guys don't like it because they get confouded by the extra wires but just keep reminding yourself that from an Engineering point of view this is a superior design compared to the Brand X way of doing things and it will ease the pain.
if you have an alternator from the years 1970-1989 (ish), it should be the dual field system that uses the diagram above. There are only THREE wires you have to deal with. The diagram has some extras in it so I will explain in writing:
1) locate the threaded post on the alternator that is marked "BAT". This goes direct to the battery positive. I recommend that you use a fusible link on the battery end of the wire. A fusible link is like a fuse... if too much current goes through it, it will burn in half and disconnect the circuit to avoid damage or a fire. Fusible links are really just a smaller gage of wire than the rest of the wire. You can buy one from any parts store; they are usually in the same section as all the crimp connectors etc. A fusible link, a fuse, or a circuit breaker is a good idea to prevent some sort of mission disabling event if a wire gets pinched and shorted to ground.
2) locate the two male spade connectors on the alternator that are marked "FLD". They are not particular regarding which one goes where in the next step.
3) route one "FLD" (field) wire to the outside post on the voltage regulator
4) route the other FLD wire to the middle post on the voltage regulator. Tap into this wire with another wire and route this to a toggle switch within reach of the driver. Route the other side of the toggle to battery positive.
Step 4 above is how the charging system is activated. You have to provide 12v to one of the fields or nothing will happen BUT you cannont leave it permanently connected to the battery because the charged field will run the battery down when the engine is off. SO, you only turn it on when the engine is running. If you want, you can put this on the same switch as your ignition but that is up to you.
Mount the voltage regulator somewhere safe and make sure the body of it has a good connection to ground.
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Punisher 66J
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Post by Punisher 66J on Jul 10, 2014 13:32:04 GMT -5
1970 & up dual field charging system (you don't have to use the starter relay.... I just show it as a jumper point for 12v feed) Do you need the wire that jumps between the charge with to battery to field wire with switch? Never ran a mopar alternator just Chevy. _____________________________________________________ points with a light to indicate ignition is "on". Alternatively, instead of taking it straight to ground you can connect this leg to the oil pressure switch on the top of the engine just behind the intake manifold to indicate the engine is not running based on oil pressure: _____________________________________________________ electronic ignition
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Post by seventyonehemicuda on Jul 10, 2014 20:42:32 GMT -5
yes, you need that wire, it excites the alt. and get it charging. without that wire, it won't work the field circuit needs a 12v feed. a switch is just nice peace of mind to be sure that there will be no drain on your battery when you shut it off, I incorporate it into my ignition switch myself.
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dm440c
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Post by dm440c on Jul 11, 2014 7:45:00 GMT -5
Punisher 66J: in my post above dated June 4 2014, look at the point #4 and you will find the explanation for your question.
The middle field wire has to be switched on and off by some method, your choice, for this to work. Anytime that it is connected to 12v positive it is drawing current which means that unless the engine is running it will be draining the battery. Anytime that it is not connected to 12v positive the alternator is doing nothing.
You can give it its own switch. Or you can splice it into your ignition "on" circuit so that it is always active with your ignition, whether you use a switch or wire twist or whatever for your ignition. If you want to get tricky you can go a step further and run it from a relay that is triggered by the ignition circuit- this way you can isolate the charge and the run circuits. Ignore that if you are already outside your comfort zone, but for the guys who are comfortable with electrical circuits this is a great way to keep the two separate while having it automatically come on and off with the ignition.
This goes for anyone reading this and wishing for a "one wire' setup.... If it seems intimidating you just gotta remind yourself that it is really not as difficult as it may seem at first. If you prefer visual diagrams then you can go by the one I put on the first page (and quoted above) or if you prefer text instructions then you can go by the steps 1-4 that I posted on this page. It's a couple extra wires, that's all, no big deal. Run 'em, make the connections, tape or zip tie them to keep things neat, and you're done in no time.
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dm440c
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Post by dm440c on Jul 11, 2014 8:58:08 GMT -5
I made some more to show 4 different ways of doing it: __________________________________________________________________________________________________ __________________________________________________________________________________________________ __________________________________________________________________________________________________ ****Note that the ignition system shown above is points type****
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Punisher 66J
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Post by Punisher 66J on Jul 12, 2014 0:45:14 GMT -5
Punisher 66J: in my post above dated June 4 2014, look at the point #4 and you will find the explanation for your question. The middle field wire has to be switched on and off by some method, your choice, for this to work. Anytime that it is connected to 12v positive it is drawing current which means that unless the engine is running it will be draining the battery. Anytime that it is not connected to 12v positive the alternator is doing nothing. You can give it its own switch. Or you can splice it into your ignition "on" circuit so that it is always active with your ignition, whether you use a switch or wire twist or whatever for your ignition. If you want to get tricky you can go a step further and run it from a relay that is triggered by the ignition circuit- this way you can isolate the charge and the run circuits. Ignore that if you are already outside your comfort zone, but for the guys who are comfortable with electrical circuits this is a great way to keep the two separate while having it automatically come on and off with the ignition. This goes for anyone reading this and wishing for a "one wire' setup.... If it seems intimidating you just gotta remind yourself that it is really not as difficult as it may seem at first. If you prefer visual diagrams then you can go by the one I put on the first page (and quoted above) or if you prefer text instructions then you can go by the steps 1-4 that I posted on this page. It's a couple extra wires, that's all, no big deal. Run 'em, make the connections, tape or zip tie them to keep things neat, and you're done in no time. Thank you very very much once again you helped dumb it down so I could figure it out. I am horrible with wiring and I finally got it. It works well and is good to go. My uncle used to do my wiring but passed away last summer so I am doing a lot of stuff this year I have never done.
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Post by car3926 on Jul 23, 2014 23:17:12 GMT -5
1970 & up dual field charging system (you don't have to use the starter relay.... I just show it as a jumper point for 12v feed) _____________________________________________________ points with a light to indicate ignition is "on". Alternatively, instead of taking it straight to ground you can connect this leg to the oil pressure switch on the top of the engine just behind the intake manifold to indicate the engine is not running based on oil pressure: _____________________________________________________ electronic ignition I made some more to show 4 different ways of doing it when using an alternator: __________________________________________________________________________________________________ __________________________________________________________________________________________________ __________________________________________________________________________________________________ ****Note that the ignition system shown above is points type**** i'm running electronic ignition, i've checked/swapped every component and cannot figure out why i have spark on the bottom 2 prongs of my resistor but no spark with the top 2 prongs of my resistor?? any help would be greatly appreciated.
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Post by car3926 on Jul 23, 2014 23:22:45 GMT -5
I need help and hope you guys can help me ! I have a 74 newport with the 400 engine. I believe it is electrical ignition because it has all the parts for the five pin ecu diagram. It ran by jumping the starter relay on the firewall before I moved the harness inside the car. I connected the diagram for the 5 pin ecu flipped the switch and nothing happened. The starter, ignition key , and solenoid are not part of the system now. Is the switch supposed to be the solenoid ? How is the starter and solenoid connected into the system? Really need help I'm new at this !
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dm440c
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Post by dm440c on Jul 24, 2014 10:49:35 GMT -5
i'm running electronic ignition, i've checked/swapped every component and cannot figure out why i have spark on the bottom 2 prongs of my resistor but no spark with the top 2 prongs of my resistor?? any help would be greatly appreciated. look close at the diagram... the red wire has to be spliced so that it feeds both sides of the resistor. Also, to reiterate- if you are using the 4 pin ECM you only need the low Ohm side of the ballast resistor. The dual ballast resistor is for the 5 pin ECM.
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dm440c
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Post by dm440c on Jul 24, 2014 10:58:08 GMT -5
I need help and hope you guys can help me ! I have a 74 newport with the 400 engine. I believe it is electrical ignition because it has all the parts for the five pin ecu diagram. It ran by jumping the starter relay on the firewall before I moved the harness inside the car. I connected the diagram for the 5 pin ecu flipped the switch and nothing happened. The starter, ignition key , and solenoid are not part of the system now. Is the switch supposed to be the solenoid ? How is the starter and solenoid connected into the system? Really need help I'm new at this ! take a deep breath.... remind yourself that since it worked before you moved things, the solution is as simple as carefully tracing your new connections to find the problem. We can solve it. The diagram is correct, it will work as long as you hooked things up correctly and none of the components suffered a random failure. Trace your wires one at a time per the diagram. Take your time. The switch in my diagram can be anything at all that makes & breaks an electrical connection. For simplicity until you gain some confidence, just use a simple toggle switch. Some people hate these but I have had nothing but good results from using a 99ยข light switch in my various derby applications. Route one terminal on the switch to battery positive, and route the other terminal to a wire nut where you splice the three legs of the red wire as shown in the diagram. Carefully trace each wire shown. The answer is somewhere in there. Also be aware that you need a good connection to ground for the body of the ECM
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Post by car3926 on Jul 24, 2014 21:00:42 GMT -5
Got it. Kept the switch as a toggle and ran power seperate to the solenoid. Connected a push button on the two terminals to jump the solenoid. Got crank but wouldn't fire. After triple checking the connections and splicing to the correct location and trusting the diagram. It still wouldn't start. Volt meter showed. 12.4 at all connections until the positive post on the coil that displayed 3.4. Got a new coil and fired right up. Starts better and doesn't stall out at cold idle anymore like it did before I stripped it . The positive post on the new coil still only reads 6.4. Is that normal? It's working great but don't want something simple to take me out of the derby! Thanks for posting the diagrams and comments. I wouldn't of had a clue on how to wire a chrysler.
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Post by car3926 on Jul 24, 2014 21:09:11 GMT -5
Question? With the electronic ignition diagram there is nothing powered directly to the alternator like in the dual charge diagram. If I ran the system using the ECM and I'm using a pushing button to jump the solenoid for a ignition is there any power being returned to my battery from the alternator or am I running on battery only ? If I'm running battery only how do I splice into the alternator with my current set up to charge the battery?
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dm440c
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Post by dm440c on Jul 25, 2014 9:29:29 GMT -5
... . The positive post on the new coil still only reads 6.4. Is that normal? ... yes, there is voltage drop across the ballast resistor. Voltage drop is summed in a DC circuit so that all of the drops equal the supply, based on Ohm's law. This is normal, this is how it is designed to work. Without the resistor you are needlessly overdriving the coil primary circuit. SO MANY people who do not understand this concept insist on fooling around with the way it was designed to work that all I can do is shake my head. (that is not directed at the person asking the question, it is directed at the people who insist on deleting the ballast resistor).
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